Crable is ready, is he able?

[IcyPatriot]

With the exception of Steve Neal ...

Seriously ... who have we seen languish on the team ... not playing for several years ...

Who then turned out to be a solid contributor on the team in the Belichick era?

Crable is depth right now ... training camp depth at that IMO ...

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

You're still not getting what I'm talking about. How can you improve a position when you hardly draft anybody and when you do, they are late rounders? Pittsburgh invested more picks in the first 3 rounds (which is no guarantee) of the draft on LB's. I still feel that NFL stats and draft statistics are a different story.

I get what you're claiming on this issue. You're just wrong. One would think that having seen Vrabel, Colvin, Pfifer, Cox, Seau, et al... would have helped you to figure it out. Sadly, that seems not to be the case.

Deus, I don't think he ever admitted it or else he'd be nuts to bring this up again.

He did admit it. What he's doing here is attempting to put a different spin on it. Porter was drafted in the 3rd round, back in 1999. Gildon was a 3rd round pick from way back in 1994. Larry Foote was a 4th round pick, not some top 10 selection. Harrison was undrafted. Farrior was a free agent. The big focus on the position in the draft for Pittsburgh came in 2007, not during the earlier part of the decade. In fact, the one "high" pick they spent earlier in the decade (2003 2nd rounder) during the time I'm talking about was wasted on Alonzo Jackson, and even if you want to go back a bit further, Kendrell Bell (2001 2nd rounder) was a rookie wonder who had only one good season after that.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

I get what you're claiming on this issue. You're just wrong. One would think that having seen Vrabel, Colvin, Pfifer, Cox, Seau, et al... would have helped you to figure it out. Sadly, that seems not to be the case.

Don't know what your talking about with the LB's listed above because they weren't drafted by the Pats. Because the team was strong at so many positions from 2003-2004 LB became their weakest link by default. Heck, people wanted Dansby in the 2004 draft.

He did admit it. What he's doing here is attempting to put a different spin on it. Porter was drafted in the 3rd round, back in 1999. Gildon was a 3rd round pick from way back in 1994. Larry Foote was a 4th round pick, not some top 10 selection. Harrison was undrafted. Farrior was a free agent. The big focus on the position in the draft for Pittsburgh came in 2007, not during the earlier part of the decade. In fact, the one "high" pick they spent earlier in the decade (2003 2nd rounder) during the time I'm talking about was wasted on Alonzo Jackson, and even if you want to go back a bit further, Kendrell Bell (2001 2nd rounder) was a rookie wonder who had only one good season after that.

I misunderstood Ray Clay because I thought he was talking about drafts since 2000.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Still don't get it do you? And you can't answer my question on how the Pats defense couldn't stop the Ravens offense.

Not that I by into numbers and not that I agree or disagree with what I am about to say but the logic is simple.

5th defense
9th offense

Well the league is geared toward offense so the 9th best offense might be as close or closer to the best offense than the 5th best defense might be to the number one defense.

If you don't like that logic try this one. Again I dont neccessarily agree but it is logic that works.

Say we got our 5th best ranking by being really good in one phase say Passing and than say the ravens got their 9th best ranking by being really good in one phase say running than we could each ligitmately have attained our ranking and still one would not match up well vs the other.

But the real simple answer is and as much as I hate to agree with Dues the simple answer is that numbers are useless without context. The truth is I wouldnt have thought we were a number 5 defense anymore than I would have thought the ravens to be a number 9 offense but also neither was to far off.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Not that I by into numbers and not that I agree or disagree with what I am about to say but the logic is simple.

5th defense
9th offense

Well the league is geared toward offense so the 9th best offense might be as close or closer to the best offense than the 5th best defense might be to the number one defense.

If you don't like that logic try this one. Again I dont neccessarily agree but it is logic that works.

Say we got our 5th best ranking by being really good in one phase say Passing and than say the ravens got their 9th best ranking by being really good in one phase say running than we could each ligitmately have attained our ranking and still one would not match up well vs the other.

But the real simple answer is and as much as I hate to agree with Dues the simple answer is that numbers are useless without context. The truth is I wouldnt have thought we were a number 5 defense anymore than I would have thought the ravens to be a number 9 offense but also neither was to far off.

Deus and I cleared it up. Deus and I both agreed that the Pats were not a top 5 defense and it was simply a counter to my argument about "draft statistics". However, we don't agree on the comparison.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

I misunderstood Ray Clay because I thought he was talking about drafts since 2000.

I was. You understood completely.

You could easily count the picks of Pittsburgh linebackers compared to the Patriots in the Belichick era and compare, but I believe I started with 2000. does it matter? Are more linebackers going to show up as being drafted by the Patriots?

I brought nothing up, I merely regurgitated an old chart i did years ago that is historical in response to this statement. The first (semi) Belichick draft was 2000, not 1999, so that's irrelevant unless, we want to compare Bucko Kilroy's drafts to Pitts too.

As I've pointed out before, the Patriots and Steelers have taken a similar approach to the linebacker position in terms of the draft. The major difference between the two groups has been health.

It's not similar at all. High picks and low picks are only similar in that they are both picks.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

You could easily count the picks of Pittsburgh linebackers compared to the Patriots in the Belichick era and compare. does it matter? Are more linebackers going to show up as being drafted by the Patriots?

I brought nothing up, I merely regurgitated an old chart i did years ago that is historical in response to this statement. The first (semi) Belichick draft was 2000, not 1999, so that's irrelevant.



It's not similar at all. High picks and low picks are only similar in that they are both picks.

Deus keeps going back to health as the key to why the Pats LB's have fallen apart. However, that probably has nothing to do your argument and certainly not my argument. Regardless of whether they were healthy or not, they were close to 30 and they were slowing down. 2004 was a perfect example of the team not having many needs yet threw away a pick on a TE because of his athletic ability when the Pats already drafted their starting TE two years prior. In 2004, LB was their primary weakness by default because they were the oldest. I remember many people on this board pissed off when the Pats passed on Dansby for Watson.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

I get what you're claiming on this issue. You're just wrong. One would think that having seen Vrabel, Colvin, Pfifer, Cox, Seau, et al... would have helped you to figure it out. Sadly, that seems not to be the case.



He did admit it. What he's doing here is attempting to put a different spin on it. Porter was drafted in the 3rd round, back in 1999. Gildon was a 3rd round pick from way back in 1994. Larry Foote was a 4th round pick, not some top 10 selection. Harrison was undrafted. Farrior was a free agent. The big focus on the position in the draft for Pittsburgh came in 2007, not during the earlier part of the decade. In fact, the one "high" pick they spent earlier in the decade (2003 2nd rounder) during the time I'm talking about was wasted on Alonzo Jackson, and even if you want to go back a bit further, Kendrell Bell (2001 2nd rounder) was a rookie wonder who had only one good season after that.

Larry Foote was listed as a 4th in my chart. What is your point?

 

[RayClay]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Deus keeps going back to health as the key to why the Pats LB's have fallen apart. However, that probably has nothing to do your argument and certainly not my argument.

Not probably, definitely has nothing to do with my argument.

I only argued Pittsburgh spent more valuable picks on linebackers in the BB era. Not my fault if the argument seems absurd.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Don't know what your talking about with the LB's listed above because they weren't drafted by the Pats. Because the team was strong at so many positions from 2003-2004 LB became their weakest link by default. Heck, people wanted Dansby in the 2004 draft.

How many times does it have to be noted that the draft is not the only way to improve your team? How many times do you people need to be shown a list of players brought in for the position before you'll stop with the nonsense about positions being ignored?

Criticize the team when it's deserved, but quit making crap up.

I misunderstood Ray Clay because I thought he was talking about drafts since 2000.

Ray's got a woody over linebackers, and he has had it for years. That's been fine but, like you and so many others, he's been unable to differentiate between failing to completely and permanently fix a problem, and ignoring the problem. It took him a long time to even accept the impact of the injury discrepancy between the two teams being compared.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Not probably, definitely has nothing to do with my argument.

I only argued Pittsburgh spent more valuable picks on linebackers in the BB era. Not my fault if the argument seems absurd.

That's not what you argued. Are you seriously going to keep pulling this crap? You jumped into the discussion between myself and HeyBro!, several posts before making any point about your "more valuable picks" assertion, which remains a useless argument.

Frankly, it's pathetic, and it's why I put you on ignore before. If you're going to keep doing it, let me know, and I'll put you on it again rather than waste my time.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

How many times does it have to be noted that the draft is not the only way to improve your team? How many times do you people need to be shown a list of players brought in for the position before you'll stop with the nonsense about positions being ignored?

Criticize the team when it's deserved, but quit making crap up.

Oh boy, your list of FA's were awful. Aside from Colvin and Thomas, the Pats signed players that were backups at best in the NFL. The cutoff is 2003 by the way.

Unfortunately Thomas didn't work out but did okay his first season and in my opinion should've been the super bowl MVP had he finished off Manning. Thomas's career went downhill after 2008. Colvin on the other hand bounced back nicely after such a bad injury he suffered. Of course you can improve your team through FA but again, the other FA's you mentioned in a list earlier were complete garbage.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Ray's got a woody over linebackers, and he has had it for years. That's been fine but, like you and so many others, he's been unable to differentiate between failing to completely and permanently fix a problem and ignoring the problem. It took him a long time to even accept the impact of the injury discrepancy between the two teams being compared.

If you want to compare trading for Farrior to Monty Biesel etc. that's a different argument.

People do get more injury prone as they age, or play with injuries due to lack of depth.

I think it's great the Patriots have decided they needed to get some young talent on the team, as they currently have five 1st-3rd round picks at LB.

I think it's a change in philosophy due to current market realities, but it could be a tremendous coincidence.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Oh boy, your list of FA's were awful. Aside from Colvin and Thomas, the Pats signed players that were backups at best in the NFL. The cutoff is 2003 by the way.

Prior to coming to New England, Chad Brown had started 155 out of 163 career games, and 7 of the 12 games he hadn't started came when he was a rookie. That means that he'd started 148 out of his last 151 games prior to signing with the Patriots.

Junior Seau..... 'nuff said.

Victor Hobson had started 56 of his last 60 games, prior to signing with the Patriots.

Paris Lenon had started 48 straight games over his last 3 seasons, and 12 of 16 games the year prior, before signing with the Patriots. After not making the Patriots, he moved on and started 10 out of 15 games for the Rams.

How is that "backups at best"?

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Prior to coming to New England, Chad Brown had started 155 out of 163 career games, and 7 of the 12 games he hadn't started came when he was a rookie. That means that he'd started 148 out of his last 151 games prior to signing with the Patriots.

Junior Seau..... 'nuff said.

Victor Hobson had started 56 of his last 60 games, prior to signing with the Patriots.

Paris Lenon had started 48 straight games over his last 3 seasons, and 12 of 16 games the year prior, before signing with the Patriots. After not making the Patriots, he moved on and started 10 out of 15 games for the Rams.

How is that "backups at best"?

Un-f*cking-believe Deus. First, Seau and Chad Brown were almost 40, Victor Hobson didn't even make the team, Paris Lenon didn't make the team, and Monty Beisel was a complete joke.

What a waste of a post on your part Deus.

 

[Off The Grid]

Deus, no offense or anything, but your cheese has slid COMPLETELY off your cracker!! :singing::singing:

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

2004 was a perfect example of the team not having many needs yet threw away a pick on a TE because of his athletic ability when the Pats already drafted their starting TE two years prior.

In 2004, LB was their primary weakness by default because they were the oldest.

I remember many people on this board pissed off when the Pats passed on Dansby for Watson.

BINGO.

 

[bucky]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Ignorant comments like this are proof that some people should just keep their mouth shut. Crable has played in pre-season games in each of the last 2 years. So, he HAS played a down.. And he was drafted in 2008.. That was only 2 years ago.. As for your comparison.. again, ignorant.

You're right. He played exactly 1 down in the 2009 preseason. On that 1 down, he got beat for a 20 yard pass. He then went off the field and ended up on IR 3 weeks later. Crable is a joke, as is this entire thread.

 

[captain stone]

Let's put aside these #s vs. those #s, and instead remember how we felt while watching the games. Did many of us have the feeling that we were watching a top-6 defense? I sure as heck didn't. They looked good vs. bad teams, and looked bad vs. good teams. To me, that makes them: mediocre - no more, no less.

As for Chicken Legs, he is at this point just another camp body like Fletcher & Williams, trying to win a job. And I suspect that I'll get from him exactly what I'll get from Fletcher & Williams: nothing.

 

[crowell33]

Just to encapsulate my 2 Points:

Unless you hit a position in the first 2 Rounds, or snag a young, established Vet, you are just praying.

1 ~ Coach Bill ignored ILB for 3 straight years of obvious need, drafting ZERO ILBs in the 1st 2 ~ or even 4! ~ Rounds of 2005, 2006, and 2007.

2 ~ Coach Bill ignored OLB for 2 straight years of obvious need ~ drafting ZERO OLBs in the first 2 rounds of 2008 and 2009 ~ and fell far short of sufficiently addressing it in this, the 3rd year:

The harsh, hard fact of the matter is that, between Cain, Burgess, Ninkovich, and Crable, we have, at best, 4 role players.

Belichick needed to go out and get TWO Starting Caliber OLB's, this year.

He got ONE.

If you don't want to call that "ignoring the problem", be my guest.

Thats priceless. TBC had 10 sacks last season, the same as clay mathews, schobel, james harrison and julius peppers. He is "at best" a role player?