Crable is ready, is he able?

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

If he admitted he was wrong, why would he bring this up again? The numbers don't lie.

5th best in what, points allowed? Numbers are obviously deceiving as they were not the 5th best defense in the NFL. The problem with this defense is they can't get off the field on 3rd downs and still can't make stops in critical situations.

Says it all right there, I think.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Says it all right there, I think.

I knew you were going to say that and it's a bad comparison. The more you draft, the better chance you get a return on your investment, in this case LB's. The Pats haven't drafted many in the first 3 rounds until 2008. Most of their LB's that were drafted were from the 5th-7th rounds. That doesn't give you a very good chance in rebuilding your LB's. NFL stats such as offensive and defensive are overrated. The Pats were not a top 5 defense in the NFL last year. Deus, you should know better.

 

[Off The Grid]

The Pats can put 2 hot tubs on ebay if Wheatley and Crable dont make the roster.

:singing: :singing:

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

I knew you were going to say that and it's a bad comparison. The more you draft, the better chance you get a return on your investment, in this case LB's. The Pats haven't drafted many in the first 3 rounds until 2008. Most of their LB's that were drafted were from the 5-7 rounds. That doesn't give you a very good chance in rebuilding your LB's. NFL stats such as offensive and defensive are overrated. The Pats were not a top 5 defense in the NFL last year. Deus, you should know better.

It's not a bad comparison at all. When you like the numbers for your argument, you're all over them. When you don't like the numbers, suddenly they are deceiving. You're playing fast and loose in an attempt to make a bad argument look better.

The reality is that all numbers can be deceiving if you don't provide context. The reality is that, for much of the decade, the Patriots approach to linebackers was to bring in veterans, and augment with low round picks and free agents. That's the same strategy Pittsburgh used. The difference between the two is that Pittsburgh's linebackers stayed remarkably healthy while the Patriots linebackers suffered a lot of injuries/problems.

The Patriots didn't ignore the LB problem. They attempted to address it time and time again. Their attempts to fix the situation simply failed, for a variety of reasons.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

It's not a bad comparison at all. When you like the numbers for your argument, you're all over them. When you don't like the numbers, suddenly they are deceiving. You're playing fast and loose in an attempt to make a bad argument look better.

The reality is that all numbers can be deceiving if you don't provide context. The reality is that, for much of the decade, the Patriots approach to linebackers was to bring in veterans, and augment with low round picks and free agents. That's the same strategy Pittsburgh used. The difference between the two is that Pittsburgh's linebackers stayed remarkably healthy while the Patriots linebackers suffered a lot of injuries/problems.

The Patriots didn't ignore the LB problem. They attempted to address it time and time again. Their attempts to fix the situation simply failed, for a variety of reasons.

If stats don't lie, how come the 5th best defense couldn't stop the 9th best offense in the NFL? Sorry, Deus, my numbers are not all over the place. And Pittsburgh drafted more LB's within the first 3 rounds than the Pats.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Beautiful argument.

I applauded the original point, but I must applaud this counter-point, as well.

In a word: Coach Bill The Mad is a genius, and in fact: he is the very best.

And those who would disparage him as a fool are themselves fools, and ungrateful ones, at that.

But it does not follow that he is beyond reproach...And his persistent Madness, regarding OLB's, is infuriating. And there can be no disputing that some moves ~ such as the infamous trade of a 3rd and a 5th for Burgess ~ were horrible, the very moment he made them.

And for the Head Coach of a Dynasty that won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years by relying on ~ among other things ~ the Power and Fury of its OLB's to BLATANTLY and PERSISTENTLY ignore those positions for 3 long years ~ after 3 long years, previously, of blatantly and persistently ignoring our horrifying weakness at ILB ~ is MADDENING.

"ignored" since 2005:

Chad Brown
Monty Beisel
Wesley Mallard
Junior Seau
Adalius Thomas
Victor Hobson
TBC
Paris Lenon
Ryan Claridge
Jeremy Mincey
Justin Rogers
Oscar Lua
Jerod Mayo
Shawn Crable
Bo Ruud
Tyrone McKenzie
Brandon Spikes
Jermaine Cunningham

I'm not sure how you could've possibly missed the fact that I broke it down to 3 years at OLB, and 3 at ILB...but you managed.

I don't think I could've possibly been clearer, though. Let's try, for your sake:

He ignored ILB for 3 years, while ILB went to Hell.

And then he ignored OLB for 3 years, while OLB went to Hell.

And do I really need to explain to you that drafting Late Rounders and picking up second and third tier Free Agents hardly constitutes "due attention"?

Do you have an argument to make? Or would you rather just continue to blatantly distort my posts, and have me call you on it? I'm easy.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

If stats don't lie, how come the 5th best defense couldn't stop the 9th best offense in the NFL? Sorry, Deus, my numbers are not all over the place. And Pittsburgh drafted more LB's within the first 3 rounds than the Pats.

And you continue to prove my point.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

And you continue to prove my point.

And that is what? Your numbers lied.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

I'm not sure how you could've possibly missed the fact that I broke it down to 3 years at OLB, and 3 at ILB...but you managed.

I don't think I could've possibly been clearer, though. Let's try, for your sake:

He ignored ILB for 3 years, while ILB went to Hell.

And then he ignored OLB for 3 years, while OLB went to Hell.

And do I really need to explain to you that drafting Late Rounders and picking up second and third tier Free Agents hardly constitutes "due attention"?

Do you have an argument to make? Or would you rather just continue to blatantly distort my posts, and have me call you on it? I'm easy.

The facts speak for themselves. The positions weren't ignored. Like so many others, you confuse a failure of 'repair' attempts with completely ignoring the problems. They are not the same thing. You can "explain" all you want, but you can't "explain" away the reality.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

And that is what? Your numbers lied.

No, that you're being a hypocrite.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

No, that you're being a hypocrite.

How so? Based on your numbers, the Pats defense should've been able to hold the Ravens offense. What happened?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

How so? Based on your numbers, the Pats defense should've been able to hold the Ravens offense. What happened?

Now your arguments are becoming irrelevant and childish. Let me bring it back:

If he admitted he was wrong, why would he bring this up again? The numbers don't lie.

5th best in what, points allowed? Numbers are obviously deceiving as they were not the 5th best defense in the NFL. The problem with this defense is they can't get off the field on 3rd downs and still can't make stops in critical situations.

Either numbers lie or they don't. You're trying to have it both ways. And changing your post from saying "numbers" to "stats" doesn't change what you're doing.

 

[Off The Grid]

Just to encapsulate my 2 Points:

Unless you hit a position in the first 2 Rounds, or snag a young, established Vet, you are just praying.

1 ~ Coach Bill ignored ILB for 3 straight years of obvious need, drafting ZERO ILBs in the 1st 2 ~ or even 4! ~ Rounds of 2005, 2006, and 2007.

2 ~ Coach Bill ignored OLB for 2 straight years of obvious need ~ drafting ZERO OLBs in the first 2 rounds of 2008 and 2009 ~ and fell far short of sufficiently addressing it in this, the 3rd year:

The harsh, hard fact of the matter is that, between Cain, Burgess, Ninkovich, and Crable, we have, at best, 4 role players.

Belichick needed to go out and get TWO Starting Caliber OLB's, this year.

He got ONE.

If you don't want to call that "ignoring the problem", be my guest.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Now your arguments are becoming irrelevant and childish. Let me bring it back:





Either numbers lie or they don't. You're trying to have it both ways. And changing your post from saying "numbers" to "stats" doesn't change what you're doing.

Still don't get it do you? And you can't answer my question on how the Pats defense couldn't stop the Ravens offense.

 

[Off The Grid]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

I'm not sure how you could've possibly missed the fact that I broke it down to 3 years at OLB, and 3 at ILB...but you managed.

I don't think I could've possibly been clearer, though. Let's try, for your sake:

He ignored ILB for 3 years, while ILB went to Hell.

And then he ignored OLB for 3 years, while OLB went to Hell.

And do I really need to explain to you that drafting Late Rounders and picking up second and third tier Free Agents hardly constitutes "due attention"?

Do you have an argument to make? Or would you rather just continue to blatantly distort my posts, and have me call you on it? I'm easy.

The facts speak for themselves. The positions weren't ignored. Like so many others, you confuse a failure of 'repair' attempts with completely ignoring the problems. They are not the same thing. You can "explain" all you want, but you can't "explain" away the reality.

It's pretty clear that someone is having a problem with reality!

Your obsession with my use of the word "ignore" is almost as amusing as your bizarre defense of Coach Bill's long and lamented failure to address problems at LineBacker, over the last 6 years!

"Ignore" is obviously my hyperbole ~ my dramatization ~ for "neglect". His infamous attempts at "repair" are well known to us all.

I haven't been around this particular Site for long, but I'm pretty confident that the other 99% of the posters don't need to have that explained to them.

***

It should've been obvious to you, at the time, that Coach Bill's "repair" attempts, which you are so fervently defending, were doomed to failure.

The idea, in sustaining a Championship team, is to address the problem at a Fundamental level.

I really shouldn't need to explain that to you.

Your transparent bitterness at other members on this Site ~ "so many others" , as you put it ~ suggests that many others saw the fundamental flaw in this approach, and called Bill on it, while you fervently defended him, even though that approach has been proven wrong year, after year, after year...

Hey, I take a back seat to NO man in my reverence of Coach Bill II, Mad Genius!!

But your persistent defense of his ~ will it help your state of mind if I say "neglect" ~ of first the ILB, and, then, the OLB positions ~ is rather disturbing, my friend!! :singing:

 

[RayClay]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Were the Patriots the 6th best offense and 5th best defense in the NFL last year? If they were, you've got a lot of apologizing to do, given the amount of pissing and moaning you've done about the team.


As for why Ray is bringing it up again, you might try asking him.

I enjoy losing an argument because I thought a second round pick was higher that a 6th round pick. I find it amusing.

And follow the thread, you brought it up, I asked you why, and you said because you proved The Pats and Pitts drafts of linebackers were similar.

All I did was repost a bunch of numbers representing the two teams linebacker picks in the decade up to 2007-8.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

It's pretty clear that someone is having a problem with reality!

Your obsession with my use of the word "ignore" is almost as amusing as your bizarre defense of Coach Bill's long and lamented failure to address problems at LineBacker, over the last 6 years!

"Ignore" is obviously my hyperbole ~ my dramatization ~ for "neglect". His infamous attempts at "repair" are well known to us all.

I haven't been around this particular Site for long, but I'm pretty confident that the other 99% of the posters don't need to have that explained to them.

***

It should've been obvious to you, at the time, that Coach Bill's "repair" attempts, which you are so fervently defending, were doomed to failure.

The idea, in sustaining a Championship team, is to address the problem at a Fundamental level.

I really shouldn't need to explain that to you.

Your transparent bitterness at other members on this Site ~ "so many others" , as you put it ~ suggests that many others saw the fundamental flaw in this approach, and called Bill on it, while you fervently defended him, even though that approach has been proven wrong year, after year, after year...

Hey, I take a back seat to NO man in my reverence of Coach Bill II, Mad Genius!!

But your persistent defense of his ~ will it help your state of mind if I say "neglect" ~ of first the ILB, and, then, the OLB positions ~ is rather disturbing, my friend!! :singing:

Not to jump in the middle here, but I will.
You will be disappointed forever if your standard is based on the fallacy that there are an unlimited amount of resouces to acquire players.
EVERY team has areas that you can find a 3 year run where they didn't address them, especially areas with strong players, and young backups.
Every team in the NFL is guilty of what you seem to be portraying as unique incompetence.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

Still don't get it do you? And you can't answer my question on how the Pats defense couldn't stop the Ravens offense.

I get it just fine. I have no problem stating that I don't think the Patriots were a top defense last season. I was saying it all season long. I have no problem saying that the Patriots were lucky to have played a lot of poor offenses last season. I was saying that, too.

However, you're still being a hypocrite. You claim that the numbers don't lie in one case, but claim that they do lie in the next case. You're the one who doesn't get it. The numbers are all but useless without context, in both cases.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

I enjoy losing an argument because I thought a second round pick was higher that a 6th round pick. I find it amusing.

And follow the thread, you brought it up, I asked you why, and you said because you proved The Pats and Pitts drafts of linebackers were similar.

All I did was repost a bunch of numbers representing the two teams linebacker picks in the decade up to 2007-8.

That's not how you lost the argument and you know it. You were wrong about this in the past. We went through it. You saw that you were wrong and admitted it. Feel free to go back and re-read the threads. You're just wasting my time here and, as I told you, I'm not going to get into it again.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Crable is ready,is he able?

However, you're still being a hypocrite. You claim that the numbers don't lie in one case, but claim that they do lie in the next case. You're the one who doesn't get it. The numbers are all but useless without context, in both cases.

You're still not getting what I'm talking about. How can you improve a position when you hardly draft anybody and when you do, they are late rounders? Pittsburgh invested more picks in the first 3 rounds (which is no guarantee) of the draft on LB's. I still feel that NFL stats and draft statistics are a different story.

That's not how you lost the argument and you know it. You were wrong about this in the past. We went through it. You saw that you were wrong and admitted it. Feel free to go back and re-read the threads. You're just wasting my time here and, as I told you, I'm not going to get into it again.

Deus, I don't think he ever admitted it or else he'd be nuts to bring this up again.