Cowboys SS Roy Williams asks to be cut or traded

[Brettlax3434]

What evidence do you have of this? Through college and his early years in the pros, he used a perfectly legal technique of tackle. A type of tackle that existed and was legal since the dawn of football.

A few high profile injuries using the horse-collar tackle later, and it's outlawed. Roy Williams -- having used and depended on this tackle his entire career -- has had some trouble shaking his instincts and would still occasionally attempt it after it was deemed illegal.

How does this make him a cheap & dirty player? Unless there is more I'm missing?

BTW, fans of 31 other teams would call Vince Wilfork "cheap & dirty"

Ive watched him do it multiple times, he blatently attempts to break the other guys leg.

 

[primetime]

What evidence do you have of this? Through college and his early years in the pros, he used a perfectly legal technique of tackle. A type of tackle that existed and was legal since the dawn of football.

Because that "legal technique" absolutely destroys knees and is generally considered extremely unsportsmanlike. You can horsecollar someone the same way in rugby, but it'll generally mean you'll be getting spiked every time you're on the ground for the rest of the match even if you aren't carded. Sorry, but a guy who makes many tackles this way and made a career out of blowing out knees, and continued to tackle this way even after the rule was implemented, is dirty as all hell.

Rodney was a dirty player too, though I think his hit on Green was as innocent as Pollard's was on Brady (despite a number of posters here calling for Pollard's head), but he never reached the same heights as Williams - and he was a much better player besides.

 

[JackBauer]

What evidence do you have of this? Through college and his early years in the pros, he used a perfectly legal technique of tackle. A type of tackle that existed and was legal since the dawn of football.

A few high profile injuries using the horse-collar tackle later, and it's outlawed. Roy Williams -- having used and depended on this tackle his entire career -- has had some trouble shaking his instincts and would still occasionally attempt it after it was deemed illegal.

How does this make him a cheap & dirty player? Unless there is more I'm missing?

BTW, fans of 31 other teams would call Vince Wilfork "cheap & dirty"

Other people have answered your question, but I would say ending multiple players' seasons and having a rule named after you qualifies.

 

[apple strudel]

What evidence do you have of this? Through college and his early years in the pros, he used a perfectly legal technique of tackle. A type of tackle that existed and was legal since the dawn of football.

A few high profile injuries using the horse-collar tackle later, and it's outlawed. Roy Williams -- having used and depended on this tackle his entire career -- has had some trouble shaking his instincts and would still occasionally attempt it after it was deemed illegal.

How does this make him a cheap & dirty player? Unless there is more I'm missing?

BTW, fans of 31 other teams would call Vince Wilfork "cheap & dirty"

Wow dude, watch the Musa Smith replay. Now watch as he continues to do it. Either he's a **** or he can't learn. If he can't learn, I don't want him.

 

[tombonneau]

Ive watched him do it multiple times, he blatently attempts to break the other guys leg.

How can you declare that is his intent? Maybe I just give the benefit of the doubt, but when a guy was using a legal tackle technique for years, he isn't going to shake that instinct over night.

I've neither seen nor heard anything from Roy Williams to indicate he ever horse-collared someone with malicious intent to injure. And I would suspect neither has anyone else. (Except for those willing to burrow themselves into his inner thoughts to divine for themselves his true intent.)

Those tackles are a result of him having to chase people from behind, nothing more. If you want to knock him for using the horse-collar because he takes poor angles and is out of position, fine, I'm with you on that. But to say he is intentionally using it to injure people is purely speculation.

 

[tombonneau]

Wow dude, watch the Musa Smith replay. Now watch as he continues to do it. Either he's a **** or he can't learn. If he can't learn, I don't want him.

Like I've posted, I think the answer is the latter: he is having trouble adjusting his technique. As you say, this could be result of an inability to learn and develop, which is a whole other problem.

 

[Clonamery]

Like I've posted, I think the answer is the latter: he is having trouble adjusting his technique. As you say, this could be result of an inability to learn and develop, which is a whole other problem.

Why would you want a "whole other problem?"

 

[NEGoldenAge]

His pre-patriot days he was dirty and post patriot he was not? I love rodney but he has dirty tendencies. Lots of after the whistle stuff. I mean he did pull a Bernard Pollard on trent Green. same hit. Lets call a spade a spade.

I honestly don't know what he was like in San Diego, thus the "maybe". Since I've watched almost every Pats game since Rodney has been here, I can say with complete certainty that he's not a real dirty player. But if you'd like to put more words in my mouth, it's lunch time and I'm hungry, so it's OK.

He had a reputaton as a dirty player before he got to NE, but he did after too, so unless you watched him a lot back then, how can you know? Maybe he did earn it back then, I just don't know. Rodney occasionally hits a bit after the whistle, but not much more often than any other aggressive player. He had a real bad late hit a couple of years ago that I thought was pretty crappy, but most of the stuff he gets flagged for is either borderline or a garbage call.

For the record, I didn't find the Pollard hit dirty. It should have been a penalty, but I really don't think it was dirty. If you do find that to be dirty, perhaps tennis would be a more suitable sport for you to watch. j/k
:singing:

 

[JackBauer]

I've neither seen nor heard anything from Roy Williams to indicate he ever horse-collared someone with malicious intent to injure. And I would suspect neither has anyone else. (Except for those willing to burrow themselves into his inner thoughts to divine for themselves his true intent.)

What, do you expect him to come out and admit it?

Either he tackles that way because he's a consciously dirty player, or he does it to cover up his liabilities (i.e. being miserable in coverage). He's still a dirty player, even if the genesis of his dirtiness is such suckitude that he can't adjust his tackling style.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Like I've posted, I think the answer is the latter: he is having trouble adjusting his technique. As you say, this could be result of an inability to learn and develop, which is a whole other problem.

You're missing the point. Even when it was not against the rules, it was widely known to be a very dangerous way to tackle someone. If you value making your tackle a little bit easier over the well being of another, you are dirty. Dirty doesn't mean breaking the rules, it means playing with a blatant disregard for the health of other players. If you can't make that distinction, I'm not sure what to tell you. Roy Williams is an adult, don't give excuses for him that would only be fit for a young child.

 

[JSn]

Roy Williams is an adult, don't give excuses for him that would only be fit for a young child.

Really, I don't think it's a good idea for a child to play in the NFL, pads or not.

 

[primetime]

I've neither seen nor heard anything from Roy Williams to indicate he ever horse-collared someone with malicious intent to injure. And I would suspect neither has anyone else. (Except for those willing to burrow themselves into his inner thoughts to divine for themselves his true intent.)

Then he's not only dirty, he's an idiot. He blew up several peoples' knees by doing it. If he couldn't put two and two together and say "oh look seems my tackling style is injuring people left and right, maybe I should stop" then he's a numbskull. When they came up with the rule that says you can't do it, he continued to do it. Maybe he just really is stupid.

The tackle is still done from time to time but no one made a career out of injuring people in that way the same way that Roy Williams has. Even if it's legal, it's extremely unsporting.

 

[khayos]

Most of the league and fans, year after year, call Rodney dirty. Because he plays for our team, we root for him. How is Roy Williams different in that way?

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Really, I don't think it's a good idea for a child to play in the NFL, pads or not.

What about a very, very large child? TO. might be a cancer, but he is a pretty good player.

 

[tombonneau]

You're missing the point. Even when it was not against the rules, it was widely known to be a very dangerous way to tackle someone. If you value making your tackle a little bit easier over the well being of another, you are dirty. Dirty doesn't mean breaking the rules, it means playing with a blatant disregard for the health of other players. If you can't make that distinction, I'm not sure what to tell you. Roy Williams is an adult, don't give excuses for him that would only be fit for a young child.

I'm 32 and have watched a lot of football, college & pros. Until Roy Williams busted TO's leg in 03 or 04, I don't ever remember anyone talking about that type of tackle. Ever. Maybe within league circles there was some kind of unspoken rule about this type of tackle, but it certainly never filtered down to the general football viewing public.

Anyway, I'm done defending Roy Williams. I look forward to the Pats signing him and everyone pulling a volte-face.

 

[JSn]

What about a very, very large child? TO. might be a cancer, but he is a pretty good player.

Find me some cancer with an up-side and I'll concede.

 

[primetime]

Most of the league and fans, year after year, call Rodney dirty. Because he plays for our team, we root for him. How is Roy Williams different in that way?

Because Roy Williams doesn't play for the Patriots yet, and I hope with all my heart that he won't ever. Rodney was twice the player Roy Williams ever was (which isn't really fair, because 2 X 0 [Williams' skill in coverage] is still 0, and Rodney was far better than that).

 

[khayos]

Because Roy Williams doesn't play for the Patriots yet, and I hope with all my heart that he won't ever. Rodney was twice the player Roy Williams ever was (which isn't really fair, because 2 X 0 [Williams' skill in coverage] is still 0, and Rodney was far better than that).

Hence why I used "in that way" -- skill and ability aside, judging just on reputation, not much difference.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Find me some cancer with an up-side and I'll concede.

There's nothing to conceed. I wouldn't want TO on this team for the league minimum. Heck, I wouldn't want him for free. Perhaps I should have used the word talented instead of "pretty good". Maybe someday, he'll grow as a person, but right now, no matter how talented he is, he's a liability.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

I'm 32 and have watched a lot of football, college & pros. Until Roy Williams busted TO's leg in 03 or 04, I don't ever remember anyone talking about that type of tackle. Ever. Maybe within league circles there was some kind of unspoken rule about this type of tackle, but it certainly never filtered down to the general football viewing public.

Anyway, I'm done defending Roy Williams. I look forward to the Pats signing him and everyone pulling a volte-face.

If the Pats sign him, I would be both shocked and pissed. I can not think of another player that I would be "pissed" if the pats signed. Also, if you google "horse collar", you will find that the danger has been widely known about for a long time. Heck, when I was a kid playing backyard football, my friends and I learned VERY quickly that it's a bad way to try to tackle.

TBH, I think the NFL should have kicked his ass out a long time ago.