Cowboys Defensive TD Was An Incomplete Pass

[Seven Nation Army]

Here is the key to solving this discussion: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TUCK. Do not use tuck, or tucking process, or any other derivation. It is not helpful to the issue at hand.

There is only a "throwing motion" and everything else. The relevant question: was a "throwing motion" taking place when the ball left his hand? If yes, incomplete. If no, fumble.

There is MOST DEFINITELY a limit on the tuck: it's when the arm stops moving forward.

If Tom Brady STOPS with his arm ****ed but doesn't start the forward motion than there is no "throwing motion" and it is a fumble.

If Tom Brady suddenly STOPS in the middle of his throwing motion and then gets hit it is a fumble.

If his arm starts to bring the ball BACKWARDS (towards his body) for ANY reason then the "throwing motion" is over and it is a fumble. If the quaterback starts a throwing motion but doesn't let go of the ball at the point of release than the instant it stops moving forward the throwing motion is over.

ONLY the throwing motion is protected, and ONLY the forward part of the throwing motion is protected. IF the "throwing motion" ends up not being an actual throw than it is what has been called a "tuck" and ONLY the FORWARD part of the so-called "tucking process" is covered. If the ball was at Brady's side or coming BACK towards Brady's side than the throwing motion was already over and it is a fumble.

When discussing this rule it is helpful to NOT use the wor "tuck" or any form of it. What we are discussing is the interpretation of a "throwing motion" and whether a "throwing motion" was happening when the ball left Brady's hand.

 

[spacecrime]

Space!! It's okay, I'm really not a bad guy.

CERTAINLY, an apology from all those who jumped my case yesterday would be nice

You're a pain in the butt troll with so little pride and self-respect you keep returning to a place where you are despised.

You are here only to be a jerk by talking down the Pats. I doubt if you even know what a tuck is. It's just that in this case a Pats poster was wrong, so your automatic and mindless naysaying in this case lined up with the facts.

Big deal. Go away. (You won't be here after Nov 4 anyway, so why not leave now and salavage a modicum of self-respect?)

 

[spacecrime]

First of all, the ball was still down at his side when it was knocked out. Watch the feakin' video.

And you have proven yourself ignorant. If you can't see how clear this rule is, something is wrong.

J D Sal

Regardless of where the ball was, Brady was bringing it up to throw. Incomplete pass.


Edit:

AARRGGHHHHH

I've been reading this stupid thread too long. I meant fumble.

That's it. I am convinced the refs made the right call, and I no longer care what anyone else thinks.

 

[ATippett56]

Space!! It's okay, I'm really not a bad guy.

CERTAINLY, an apology from all those who jumped my case yesterday would be nice

Not a bad guy? More like a moron who spews anti-Patriot propaganda whenever the opportunity arises. With regard to the tuck rule, it's your mommy tucking you in at night.

 

[Seven Nation Army]

When a Team A player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his hand starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body.

To clarify, there is a difference between backwards and back. The ball can still be moving forward (an be protected) and be coming back to the body (i.e. it didn't go down the field to the reciever).

 

[spacecrime]

Yup. We can all pretend the rule says something it doesn't. But it's very clear. Arm forward -- starts a pass. Can't be a fumble until a tuck.

Only issue here -- was there a tuck? There wasn't.

If the interpretation advanced by Oswlek were correct, the play in the snow bowl was incorrectly called. It wasn't.

Not true. In the snow bowl Brady's arm was still going down. He was tucking the ball and the correct call was made.

Yesterday he was raising his arm, not tucking it, and the correct call was made.

There have been a ton of calls that the refs gave to the Colts, and the egregious call in Denver that the ball went out of bounds before the endzone, but every call against us in not part of a conspiracy. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[Seven Nation Army]

Regardless of where the ball was, Brady was bringing it up to throw. Incomplete pass.

No, fumble.

Bringing the ball and up and down is different from a throwing motion.

 

[spacecrime]

No, fumble.

Bringing the ball and up and down is different from a throwing motion.

:

AARRGGHHHHH

I've been reading this stupid thread too long. I meant fumble.

Thanks for pointing this out - you are so right - but that's it. I am convinced the refs made the right call, and I no longer care what anyone else thinks.

 

[Seven Nation Army]

Not true. In the snow bowl Brady's arm was still going down. He was tucking the ball and the correct call was made.

Exactly. At the moment contact was made by Woodson it was still possible for Brady to have released the ball in a throw. It would have been a very, very ****ty pass (basically a spike) but it was still technically a POSSIBLE throw and therefore protected.

 

[Hardboiled]

Here is the key to solving this discussion: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TUCK. Do not use tuck, or tucking process, or any other derivation. It is not helpful to the issue at hand.

There is only a "throwing motion" and everything else. The relevant question: was a "throwing motion" taking place when the ball left his hand? If yes, incomplete. If no, fumble.

There is MOST DEFINITELY a limit on the tuck: it's when the arm stops moving forward.

If Tom Brady STOPS with his arm ****ed but doesn't start the forward motion than there is no "throwing motion" and it is a fumble.

If Tom Brady suddenly STOPS in the middle of his throwing motion and then gets hit it is a fumble.

If his arm starts to bring the ball BACKWARDS (towards his body) for ANY reason then the "throwing motion" is over and it is a fumble. If the quaterback starts a throwing motion but doesn't let go of the ball at the point of release than the instant it stops moving forward the throwing motion is over.

ONLY the throwing motion is protected, and ONLY the forward part of the throwing motion is protected. IF the "throwing motion" ends up not being an actual throw than it is what has been called a "tuck" and ONLY the FORWARD part of the so-called "tucking process" is covered. If the ball was at Brady's side or coming BACK towards Brady's side than the throwing motion was already over and it is a fumble.

When discussing this rule it is helpful to NOT use the wor "tuck" or any form of it. What we are discussing is the interpretation of a "throwing motion" and whether a "throwing motion" was happening when the ball left Brady's hand.

What you are not getting is that the thowing motion is not over until he tucks the ball back into his body. It may seem weird, but that's the way the NFL wants it.

After a QB starts a thowng motion and doesn't complete it, there is nothing saying when that motion stops (even it his arm becomes frozen) except for tucking against his body.

Don't use your own logical view of a throwing motion. It's logical and makes sense to me, but it doesn't matter to this rule.

Again, Mike Pereira, the NFL's director of officiating
"The rule is very specific," Pereira said. "We have to make our decision based on the rule. Intent doesn't factor into the rule. Does the ball come out after [the quarterback's] arm is going forward and before he tucks the ball back into his body? If so, then it's an incomplete pass."

Again - AFTER the arm goes forward. Nothing is said about it stopping or coming back. Your view of a throwing motion may make sense to the average person, but don't apply that to the NFL.

 

[Seven Nation Army]

What you are not getting is that the thowing motion is not over until he tucks the ball back into his body.

Did you read your own quoted evidence? It says that the protected throwing motion is over BEFORE he tucks the ball back towards his body.

"Does the ball come out after [the quarterback's] arm is going forward and before he tucks the ball back into his body? If so, then it's an incomplete pass."

You are confused because you don't understand Pereira's semantics.

 

[Seven Nation Army]

If you are puzzled by my reply than you are confused between a "tuck" and bringing the ball down. This is why that word should never be used.

 

[Hardboiled]

Did you read your own quoted evidence? It says that the protected throwing motion is over BEFORE he tucks the ball back towards his body.

Seven Nations,

Firstly, you can't quote me if you change my writing.

Pereira doesn't say "back towards his body." He says "It's back into his body." Why did you change that?

It says that the protected thowing motion (your words) ENDS when he tucks the ball against this body. ENDS. Nothing about bring the ball down or up or over or here or there.

You keep talking about bringing the ball down. Where is bringing the ball down cited except in YOUR view of throwing motion?

 

[He Ban Me]

You're a pain in the butt troll with so little pride and self-respect you keep returning to a place where you are despised.

You are here only to be a jerk by talking down the Pats. I doubt if you even know what a tuck is. It's just that in this case a Pats poster was wrong, so your automatic and mindless naysaying in this case lined up with the facts.

Big deal. Go away. (You won't be here after Nov 4 anyway, so why not leave now and salavage a modicum of self-respect?)

DUDE!! It's an INTERNET FORUM!! I don't give a rats rear WHAT you think. I'm not here to be a jerk, I am here to offer a different perspective.

fact is, I got JUMPED for a differing opinion. You guys can't STAND another opinion. Is this the way you treat everyone who begs to differ?

So, big deal, you go away.

 

[Hardboiled]

, I am here to offer a different perspective.
fact is, I got JUMPED for a differing opinion. You guys can't STAND another opinion.

No. You got jumped for showing ignorance over and over in your posts. You offered an ignorant opinion and then had the gaul to say that you needed to find out more about the subject. End of thread for me.

 

[He Ban Me]

No. You got jumped for showing ignorance over and over in your posts. You offered an ignorant opinion and then had the gaul to say that you needed to find out more about the subject. End of thread for me.

Fumble.....End of thread:bricks:

 

[Oswlek]

Did you read your own quoted evidence? It says that the protected throwing motion is over BEFORE he tucks the ball back towards his body.

"Does the ball come out after [the quarterback's] arm is going forward and before he tucks the ball back into his body? If so, then it's an incomplete pass."

You are confused because you don't understand Pereira's semantics.

No, they do have that correct. Even if the QB is in the process of "tucking" the ball back into his body, it is still an incomplete pass.

Where they are incorect is the line of thought that the tuck is the only way to discern the end of the throwing motion, when in fact is is quite easy to do so. Your line here is excellent:

ONLY the throwing motion is protected, and ONLY the forward part of the throwing motion is protected.

As soon as the original motion ends it would be considered a fumble.