Could Wilfork rush the passer?

[HarkDawg]

The thought of Wilfork as a DE Pass rusher

 

[mcsully]

I really do not understand this

1)Vince is a top NT in the league. It takes time for NT to develop. SO having invested the time to develop him you want to now take the challenge of developing another one over the next 2-3 yrs?.

2)he is considered one of the top 2-3 NT in the league why would you move him to the outside so he has to learn a new position.

3)So instead of addressing the 3-4 end position to strength the line you want to put vince there and have him learn while you spend a year or 2 developing another NT

4)Vince due his play lets us use lighter faster LB like mayo ,guyton in the middle. If you put a rookie in there make sure you open a slot for this guys in the IR after being bashed by gaurds for a few games.

1. It won't take Wilfork 2 or 3 years to develop.. Why would you think that? he's playing the in the same system and BB is known for having his players know everyone's assignments..

2. Again not 2 years

3. Rookie NT would basically be asked to Tie up the blockers.. and Cody or someone else can do that..

4. Guyton needs to be replaced as a starter and Mayo will be better this year (he'll be healthly).. Rotating a young NT, along with having Brace, and the others will help out..

 

[mcsully]

The thought of Wilfork as a DE Pass rusher

But we're not asking him to be a Pass Rusher.. I refer to Wilfork being our version of Ngata.. He doesn't get the sack but pushes the pocket in and frees up teh LB's to make plays..

Our starting DL has never recorded more than 8 sacks..

We need the front 3 to hold up the line and let the LB's do their job..

 

[RayClay]

If you never try to improve on what you have, you will never improve. The best you can hope for is to maintain the status quo, which isn't that good for our DL.

BB worked under Ted marchibroda in the 70's. I lived in MD at the time, and Ted's philosophy was to strengthen your strengths. Make one unit that will totally dominate, and that will swing many games your way, as your remaining units only need to hold their own most of the time.

Besides, our pass rush WAS broken last year, and it needs fixing.

Wilfork has played spot DE for us, and one game against Miami, he played the entire game at the position (BB later said he needed to put our best DL opposite Long).

I think this is an excellent idea. I like Cody a lot. Draft him in round 2 and put him in the middle. With him and Wilfork each commanding double teams, Warren and an OLB rusher can get to the QB early and often.

You absolutely weaken two positions. Get a damned DE!

 

[mcsully]

You absolutely weaken two positions. Get a damned DE!

Actually you would strengthen the entire unit.. But the Key here is getting one of those NT's

 

[RayClay]

I know Vince has played cornerback, he said so on the radio. Make him a press corner, like the role we had for Tebucky Jones.

Sure, some corners might elude him, but the ones who get pressed will never forget it, possibly retiring from football, while the game is in progress.

 

[RayClay]

Actually you would strengthen the entire unit.. But the Key here is getting one of those NT's

That's amazing. Used to be it was a real crap shoot trying to get a 4-3 tackle from college and project him to NT. That's why they said it was the hardest position to fill in the 3-4. It's why slow injured Ted Washington was still getting nearing 40.

Now, any college tackle is a guaranteed career starter? That's great! 2nd round? didn't the Patriots draftone of those guaranteed top nose tackles in round two?

His name was Ron something. When's he ready to take over?

Just because Cody's played nose doesn't mean he will ever be as good as Vince in the NFL.

Brady caught a pass once. Let's draft the top QB and make Brady a slot receiver.

 

[Schmo]

He could possibly play LDE in the 3-4, but I think it would be ridiculous to do... move Wilfork to LDE, move Warren to RDE and have a rookie/Brace etc start anew at NT? We would be sacrificing a lot. I also agree with previous posters about Wilfork being the best at what he does.

Could Welker play HB? Probably, but would anyone seriously contemplate that switch from the slot?

In a 4-3 I think he could definitely rush the passer, but if we switched, he would still be a 1-gap NT (? not an expert on the D-line... sorry if my terminology is off) as we would most likely move Warren inside as the pass rushing DT (? over the G).

 

[mcsully]

That's amazing. Used to be it was a real crap shoot trying to get a 4-3 tackle from college and project him to NT. That's why they said it was the hardest position to fill in the 3-4. It's why slow injured Ted Washington was still getting nearing 40.

Now, any college tackle is a guaranteed career starter? That's great! 2nd round? didn't the Patriots draftone of those guaranteed top nose tackles in round two?

His name was Ron something. When's he ready to take over?

Just because Cody's played nose doesn't mean he will ever be as good as Vince in the NFL.

Brady caught a pass once. Let's draft the top QB and make Brady a slot receiver.

Nothing is guaranteed but it makes sense to look at the option of maximizing your players talent.. Maybe Cody will be better than wilfork and be the next Ted Washington.. Maybe he won't.. But the point of the OP and my posts is you have to take a look at the entire product, just not one player.. Its all about Maximizing peoples talents, which in turn creates a better unit..

The key, which I pointed out and you failed to refer to, is getting the quality NT.. could be Cody could be someone else.. Like you pointed out, maybe its Brace.. Maybe he has a great off season and becomes our NT... point is, put your best players on the field..

On a side note, I see more potential star NT than Star DE in this deep draft.. (williams, Price and Cody)

And your comparision on Brady catching a ball. UGH.. EPIC failure..

 

[RayClay]

Nothing is guaranteed but it makes sense to look at the option of maximizing your players talent..

That's why Wilfork is playing nose instead of Warren or Seymour, who both could play it, but were moved to where their talent is maximized.

Wilfork is looking at possibly perennial all pro in the hardest position to fill in the 3-4. Talent maximized, end of story.

Maybe Cody will be better than wilfork and be the next Ted Washington.. Maybe he won't..

Maybe Brace will be adequate and Cody will be less. They are both 2nd round picks. That means they are more likely similar than some guy and the man mountain Washington, Wilfork or the handful of top NTs.

Coaches don't build teams on 2nd round "maybes."

 

[mcsully]

That's why Wilfork is playing nose instead of Warren or Seymour, who both could play it, but were moved to where their talent is maximized.

Wilfork is looking at possibly perennial all pro in the hardest position to fill in the 3-4. Talent maximized, end of story.

Great point.. Now that we don't ahve Seymour, it might be time to fill his spot with Wilfork

Maybe Brace will be adequate and Cody will be less. They are both 2nd round picks. That means they are more likely similar than some guy and the man mountain Washington, Wilfork or the handful of top NTs.

Coaches don't build teams on 2nd round "maybes."

We built one on a 6th rounder

 

[RayClay]

Great point.. Now that we don't ahve Seymour, it might be time to fill his spot with Wilfork

Learning disability?

 

[Brady2Welker]

I know Vince has played cornerback, he said so on the radio. Make him a press corner, like the role we had for Tebucky Jones.

Sure, some corners might elude him, but the ones who get pressed will never forget it, possibly retiring from football, while the game is in progress.

This one made me giggle quite a bit.


But not as much as the idea as moving our NT to DE and putting a rookie in at NT.

 

[mcsully]

Learning disability?

I guess u have one with a response like that.

 

[mcsully]

This one made me giggle quite a bit.


But not as much as the idea as moving our NT to DE and putting a rookie in at NT.

I guess u if think the pats have a nt rated higher on the board than a DE they should take the DE?

Or better yet, what DE in the draft do u think would play the position better than wilfork? It looks a great draft for nt

 

[dhamz]

This must be this offseasons version of "Lets move Wilson/Meriweather to CB" thread.

There is no good reason to take an elite NT, pay him huge $, and then willingly turn him into a below average DE.

 

[RayClay]

I guess u have one with a response like that.

I'll try to explain. Wilfork wouldn't be a good DE. He's slow and round and has no experience at the position.

He is, however, on the way to being the absolute best at NT, a harder position to fill.

We have draft picks and ability to get FAs who can play DE, as well as Wright and others.

Your main argument is, it's worth moving someone who is great at his position to a position he'd be fair to lousy at because an unknown 2nd round pick might be better than all pro Wilfork at his position.

This is despite the fact we have a high 2nd round pick on the roster that isn't worthy of holding Wilfork's jock at this point

You are either trolling, or have no logical argument.

Every single aspect of your plan would either be a definite downgrade, or a longshot gamble where logical alternatives exist.

Give me one reason to take your argument seriously.

 

[RayClay]

I guess u if think the pats have a nt rated higher on the board than a DE they should take the DE?

They could trade down, they could get a veteran end, there's probably more things they could do.

The problem is, your basic premise that removing an all pro and putting him in a position he doesn't know how to play and isn't physically suited to, makes a lot of options better than what you want to do.

Or better yet, what DE in the draft do u think would play the position better than wilfork? It looks a great draft for nt

Are you a nose tackle expert? You've decided an unproven player rated a 2nd rounder on most boards could be better than Ted Washington even though we have an actual 2nd round pick from last year as an example. Hmmm

Mike Wright can play end better than Wilfork. There are vet free agents or trades who could also. There are DEs who are better suited physically and have played end who could work with Wright and be better than an out of position Wilfork over time if not immediately.

There is no evidence Wilfork would even be better than some guys on the roster, or cuts we've made.

By the way, on the great blue draft projection, 2 of the first 4 picks are DTs who project as ends, not nose tackles in the 3-4, Suh and McCoy, meaning even your statement about the draft being top heavy with NT prospects is really questionable.

The law of averages says you have to be right about something eventually, so I'd keep it up if I were you.:bricks:

they have Cody rated 37 in round 2, three places ahead of where Brace was picked. Apparently, with your superior knowledge, you should be advising GMs about this draft steal.

 

[alvinnf]

Wilfork could definately be left in on 3rd down more often. Brace an Cody probably not so much.... Wilfork is our best player on defense he needs to play 80% of the snaps on D, he makes everyone around him better. Even rushing the passer....

 

[satz]

1. It won't take Wilfork 2 or 3 years to develop.. Why would you think that? he's playing the in the same system and BB is known for having his players know everyone's assignments..

2. Again not 2 years

3. Rookie NT would basically be asked to Tie up the blockers.. and Cody or someone else can do that..

4. Guyton needs to be replaced as a starter and Mayo will be better this year (he'll be healthly).. Rotating a young NT, along with having Brace, and the others will help out..

1) I think you misunderstood what i wrote. It took vince 2-3 yrs to develop into a top level NT. What i meant was even if you find someone as talented it will take time.

2) How can you say this the phins ,steelers ,even the chargers and every 3-4 team has been drafting NT and havn`t found 1 and are stuck with older guys.vince and nata and franklin are the last 3 NT in the last 7-8 yrs.But you are confident we will find another 1 easily.Finding a NT is harder than a good QB.

3)You mean like brace did last year against buffalo.Every year 3-4 NT are drafted can you name the last rookie who was good. Franklin who is from 06 draft became a good NT for 49ers this year.

4)You know why DE in 3-4 need to be tall and long?

a) As DE job is to hold the block and rush when the QB throws he can raise his hands to block the passing lanes. Seymour was very good at this and this is due to developing this skill set and being tall.
b) The ability to stand and look at the qb drop and then rush the passer. a 6 2 DE while lower to the ground will have trouble looking over a taller OT to determine to rush the passer.
C) Same applies for finding the RB running behind the Line. If he is shorter and plays with a lower CG he is not going to able to see the RB.
d) Longer hands give leverage to shed blockers and get the RB.



at 6,2 vince playing low will never be able to develop the height to block throws or determine when to rush.