Could we have done better than Mills at 4?

[BelichickFan]

With all the needs to be filled, a 4th TE is a questionable pick.

What needs ? Young LB. 5th WR. What are "all the needs to be filled" ?

 

[AzPatsFan]

Is a pattern forming?

Belichick has had two extraornary FB/Receivers while a HC/Asst HC.

Richie Anderson with the Jets, (who he tried to sign for the Pats and lost to Tuna). The other was the record-setting ex-Cardinal FB/Receiver whose name escapes me right now. He was at the very end of his carreer but Belichick signed him for half a season before he retired.

Now he goes out and signed a TE/H-Back/FB receiver extrordnaire.

Does this start to form a pattern to anyone?

Do you think that BB sees a few plays that really stretch a Defense?

 

[BelichickFan]

Belichick has had two extraornary FB/Receivers while a HC/Asst HC.

Richie Anderson with the Jets, (who he tried to sign for the Pats and lost to Tuna). The other was the record-setting ex-Cardinal FB/Receiver whose name escapes me right now.

Larry Centers. Don't forget Belichick has seen plenty of Keith Byars too.

 

[patsox23]

He is also undersized for TE, hence the speculation by many that he'll play FB, which he's never played, to my knowledge. He looks like the Klecko of the offense. He knocks Heath Evans off the roster. I still say we could have done better.

Sorry if I was unclear, but I don't think anyone needs to SPECULATE that Mills will see time at FB, it's pretty much EXACTLY what he was drafted to be. (He was ranked as the top FB in the draft.) He may see some time at TE, and he will certainly play a lot of ST's, but the guy is going to play FB, hopefully in a Keith Byars kind of way.

As for "we could have done better," I think that's easy to say and impossible to prove. As I mentioned earlier, I am most intrigued by this pick BECAUSE there are so many "conventional wisdom" reasons NOT to have made it.

1) we haven't used FB too much in our offense

2) we don't have the need at TE (if he were to play there)

3) we had the ammo to do pretty much whatever we wanted with our first pick in the 4th, the chance to take lots of things we thought we "needed" - Avant at WR, any of the remaining LB's, including Mincey, another DB

4) and, most importantly, we had all night to think about it, to try to trade up, trade back, ANYTHING

Despite all of this working against him, Mills was still the pick. I think that says a lot about what they saw in him. And I trust them when there's that much evidence of BB sensing "special."

 

[Kdo5]

Nope, it seemed like a steal to get Mills to be honest.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Leaving aside the point that BB has the extra brain cells I always wanted...the player I was really interested in was WR Mike Hass.

When you look at the combine numbers posted earlier by BBF, you see Mills as a heavier version of Hass. I wouldn't be surprised to see Mills lining up as a WR, perhaps filling part of the Givens possession role. If Chad Jackson is everything people here are dreaming about, split Jackson and Mills to one side and Branch to the other - where are the CBs going? Do we see that in 2006? Probably not, but give it a year and see what happens.

You also have to think in terms of the blocking, if Mills gets to 241 (I've seen him listed around 230 more often) he can do a number on LBs and DBs as he learns to block better, and the couple times I saw Givens come in motion and block into the line won't be as scary with a 240 lb. receiver sticking his nose in - besides, who needs a lead FB when you can have a WR come in motion and lead into the line?

miDeuce: H-back is a hybrid TE/FB/sometimes RB. Our TEs actually play a form of H-back lining up in the backfield, and split out into the slot receiver role. You will sometimes see Graham line up in the backfield in an I formation to lead block for Dillon in short yardage situations. You will see him and Watson line up offset in the backfield and split out to the slot. Pure H-backs are usually on the small side of TE and middle side of FB, and tend to be shorter in the 5-11 to 6-1 range. Mills is prototypical for the size and ability to play all over, he just needs more experience as a blocker and runner out of the backfield.

 

[RayClay]

If Pass had been any good over the past 5-6 years, he would have more mileage. And he can't block. That's why when run blocking is required, pass is not on the field.

A little early to tell how a draft pick will work out. Who do you wish we had taken?

I don't pretend to know particulars about this guy or have a "book" on second day picks.

I would say with Bethel now gone, PR, KR, WR, LB and CB/S might have been positions where a pick might have lhelped fill in.

Obviously, there's more choice in round 4 than 6 or 7.

I'm not a huge Pass fan, but when he's on the field he can back up RB and is a threat to run block or receive and plays special teams.

 

[RayClay]

Like the previous poster, I saw him play against Oklahoma. This was a game that Tulsa nearly won, and their only offense was throwing the ball to Garret Mills. Seriously, everybody knew the ball was going to Mills, and he repeatedly got open, made catches in traffic and underneath. He can be taught to block a little better and turn into a real asset.

Thanks for the info. Did anyone see him in other games? Seems they play a fair

schedule. Kind of average.

 

[primetime]

Give me Parys Haralson, Jason Avant, Will Blackmon, Demario Minter, or a half dozen other guys on that list. As a fourth TE, I don't see the "value" that BB always talks about. On ST, I see value. But Rd 4 is too high to draft for ST only.

31 other teams failed to see the "value" in these guys before the Patriots saw "value" in Mills.

Besides, you're complaining about a ST only guy and then you say Will Blackmon would've been better value? If he does anything with his career beyond a good special teamer I'll be surprised. No hands and doesn't cover real well. A guy who really doesn't have a position (unless you consider returner a position).

And yeah, Belichick has had these kind of guys before. Anderson, and then the prototypes in Byars (with the Patriots and Jets) and Centers.

 

[RayClay]

Larry Centers. Don't forget Belichick has seen plenty of Keith Byars too.

Though it wasn't their specialty, Byars and Centers might block or run when they lined up. I imagine Mills will work at these skills?

 

[bosfan]

Excellent post - provocative, interesting, informative and on topic - but should this kind of post really be in this forum? FWIW Mills had a 35 on his wonderlic. It will be interesting to follow his progress........

 

[Poll]

He might have size or elite athleticism but he knows how to play the game, get open and catch the ball.
What more do you want on third down?

 

[rookBoston]

So, to answer the original question, the two players in the 4th round that I might have been interested in, instead of Mills, would be LSU WR Skyler Green... far more as a KR, PR than an immediate contributor on O (For those not familiar with him, he's another guy in the Iron Smurf category)... and Louisville DE Elvis Dumervil who is a DE/OLB tweener who might have gone on Day One.

Here's the thing with second guessing the braintrust: I'm sure they've scouted Green and Dumervil, and they chose Mills.

I actually had Mills on my draft board from Day One, and was mock drafting him in the 4th round as our backfill for Fauria and competition for Matt Chatham (since departed) on the coverage units. He was widely regarded as the #100th best player (or thereabouts) in the draft by all the conventional draft services. So, we took him at a point in the draft that the mainstream had pretty much projected as fair value. The surprise for me is that we took him even after drafting Thomas in the 3rd.

Mills, unquestionably productive, smart, impossible to lock down in college, was the undisputed heart and soul of his college team. Leadership, hands, reliability. There were pre-draft stories about him coaching his teammates on new formations during the game, adjusting his routes to compensate for defensive schemes... incredible heady stuff, and very much in line with BB's need for smart players who "understand" football as a science and an art.

In comparison, Green may become a good WR and may have some immediate upside in the kicking game. But he's not as fast as Bethel or as good a prospect overall as Bethel, coming out of college. If we're looking for a KR/PR specialist, is Green really the guy? Or is the better value in taking a no-name in the 7th round who broke all kinds of records in the kicking game?... oh, wait. We did. And we'd already taken a possible breakout receiver with elite upside in the 2nd. Green is an oversight I'm very willing to forgive.

Dumervil is an athletic, undersized college DE, who will probably be an NFL LB some day. This is a need, and in the 4th round, it was still an unfilled need. I'm a guy who wanted to take a LB in the 1st, so the fact that we escape the 4th without one had me scratching my head. Another guy is Mark Anderson, a DE from Alabama, who didn't go until the 5th, who I think could be a fit for our defensive scheme. I loved Anderson, pre-draft, and would have taken him in the 4th, if it had been me making the calls. But BB/SP passed on him, not only to take Mills, but also to take Gostkowski and O'Callaghan, who by my reckoning is our #4 or #5 OT, competing with some very credible prospects like Britt and Yates for the honor of being inactive every week.

All I can say is, the staff seem very pleased with Mincey and it looks like Beisel has had a good offseason. Even without a 4th round receiver, I'm very pleased with our incoming receiving corp. BB/SP know their prospects, and even though I'm borderline obsessive about Patriots personnel management, they know their team better than I do.

 

[AllabouttheVinces]

If Pass had been any good over the past 5-6 years, he would have more mileage. And he can't block. That's why when run blocking is required, pass is not on the field.

A little early to tell how a draft pick will work out. Who do you wish we had taken?

Here's the book on Mills: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/416928
Could we do better than a guy projected to "try to carve out a spot for himself as a No. 3 tight end, backup fullback that can also be used as a motion blocker, and on special teams."? Looks like blocking is a weakness. Not what you want for your FB.

With the gaping holes at LB, after losing McGinest, TJ, Phifer and Chatham over the past two years, I think LB should have been addressed before Rd 6. I agree with other posters here who like Anderson, Dumervil or Dobbins. The guy I like is Haralson: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/412179
Speed, athleticism, smarts, and what I really like is "He is a very active and competitive defensive end who consistently goes all out on every snap."

Depth at LB is, IMHO, the #1 weakness of the Pats right now. What happens when we lose a LB to injury? Does TBC or Izzo become a starter? We all hope that Mincey and Roach can make the leap, but asking a #6 and a UDFA to be productive as rookies is a lot to ask.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Here's the book on Mills: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/416928
Could we do better than a guy projected to "try to carve out a spot for himself as a No. 3 tight end, backup fullback that can also be used as a motion blocker, and on special teams."? Looks like blocking is a weakness. Not what you want for your FB.

With the gaping holes at LB, after losing McGinest, TJ, Phifer and Chatham over the past two years, I think LB should have been addressed before Rd 6. I agree with other posters here who like Anderson, Dumervil or Dobbins. The guy I like is Haralson: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/412179
Speed, athleticism, smarts, and what I really like is "He is a very active and competitive defensive end who consistently goes all out on every snap."

Depth at LB is, IMHO, the #1 weakness of the Pats right now. What happens when we lose a LB to injury? Does TBC or Izzo become a starter? We all hope that Mincey and Roach can make the leap, but asking a #6 and a UDFA to be productive as rookies is a lot to ask.

We got the #1 rated FB (according to every predraft analysis I read/watched) in the 4th round. I don't have a problem with that. Far more *****ing could be done about taking a kicker later in the 4th when we probably could have gotten him later.

Still, I can even live with that pick... reach that it was. I don't see the beef with the Mills pick at all. Pass is not a particularly great receiving threat... he blocks ok, but not good enough to keep BB from using defensive players on the goalline, and as a runner, he is probably a notch below Heath Evans.

His most redeeming qualities are versatility and ST play. He is not a good enough FB to make drafting the best FB prospect in the 4th a stupid a move.

Above all, I want to see the guy play before getting into a lengthy and potentially contentious discussion about the merits of taking him where we did.

 

[JMCTULSA]

From someone, who saw almost everygame Mills has played in for the last 3 years, I think the Pats fans will eventually be really excited about him. He will adjust to the complex offenses in the NFL as he did when our new coaching staff took over his sophmore year. Very intelligent guy. Was able to tell the younger players what they were to do on certain plays. He knew all the offensive players assignments for all plays. I keep seeing where everyone says his weakness is blocking. The guys is pretty fundamentaly sound at blocking and does a good job when needed. He is just not going to blow a DE back 3 yards. He can hold his block long enough to execute the play. He will go through struggles next year, but will be a major contributor in his third year. I know many might think that's a waste of a 4th rounder, but to each his own. He will be an exceptional pass catcher (probably have a few drops in the beginning. I'm sure the nerves will be a lot different playing for the Pats in front of everyone compared to playing here at Tulsa).
He's never been the fastest guy on the field, but runs great passing routes and is very good at adjusting to a broken play. When we played OU everyone new he was our only weapon and they still couldn't stop him. He was double teamed and even triple teamed at times, but was still unstoppable. Oh well I hope he works out great for you guys, he's a class act and you won't get anymore effort from anyone else.

 

[PATSNUTme]

How can that questions be answered now? We haven't seen him play a down in the NFL. We haven't see the prospects that we might have taken play a down in the NFL.

Mills has been compared by some as a Kevin Turner type player. If he gives us what Kevin gave us, and then the Eagles for a while, then he is a good choice.

 

[patpatriot]

Mills was a good risk

Due to his intelligence (a must in the Pat's passing game - See B Johnson), hands, and route running ability, Mills may allow the Pats to only carry 4 wide outs with Mills taking the 5th slot in any 5-wide sets (tho I don't know how much the Pats use that formation since CW left). Mills is a lot closer to 220 than 240 but he did do 23 reps of 225 ilbs which is better than some dlinemen and certainly better than any DB he is likely to encounter so I see him being strong enough to beat any jam even by LBs.

As for other 4th rounders, I liked Harylson and Anderson as well (for pass rush) but BB seems to think he can coach similar performace out of Mincey. Green was enticing but he didn't project to have any role other than P/KO returner (tho I would have been sorely tempted to fill this role here...if he was there in the 5th I would have taken him over O'Callahan).

In this dead time any topic that doesn't endlessly beat to death Ty Law and the Postons is very welcome. Good Job!

 

[BelizePats]

I think that this is a great question for a thread, given all the garbage OT no football threads we've been reading here for the past few weeks.
My initial reaction to hearing that we'd drafted another TE after Thomas was that I was pissed off. We had far greater needs at LB and WR. Then reality kicked in.
I have managed to put total faith in SP/BB over the years, even if I sometimes forget to do so.
Duane Starks aside, these guys have proved to be superior judges of talent over the past 5 years and if Mills was the guy they wanted, then I love the pick.
I love the fact that over the last couple of drafts, the offence has been completely retooled and gotten a great deal younger. New RB with star potential, New WR with great potential, new FB (Mills) new TE (Watson)
new guard (Mankins) new tackle (Kazur)
Brady is locked up long term and over the next two drafts we can either rebuild the LB's and DB's or do what ever the hell we want to? Whatever it is, it will from a position of strength.
While it is impossible to win the Superbowl every year, I think that we will have as good a shot as anyone else over the next 3-5 years as a result of SP/BB doing what they do.
Mills in the 4th? Hell yes!!!!

Respects,

Rich

 

[mgteich]

I would have picked Skyler Green. I thought we need another receiver and a returner, but what do I know. Seriously, braintrust does indeed know these players much better than I do. But Mills is much more than "in Bill we trust". He was the #1 fullback in the draft and a top TE.

I still think we need a returner/receiver. I was very disappointed when we didn't re-sign Dwight or Davis.

So, to answer the original question, the two players in the 4th round that I might have been interested in, instead of Mills, would be LSU WR Skyler Green... far more as a KR, PR than an immediate contributor on O (For those not familiar with him, he's another guy in the Iron Smurf category)... and Louisville DE Elvis Dumervil who is a DE/OLB tweener who might have gone on Day One.

Here's the thing with second guessing the braintrust: I'm sure they've scouted Green and Dumervil, and they chose Mills.

I actually had Mills on my draft board from Day One, and was mock drafting him in the 4th round as our backfill for Fauria and competition for Matt Chatham (since departed) on the coverage units. He was widely regarded as the #100th best player (or thereabouts) in the draft by all the conventional draft services. So, we took him at a point in the draft that the mainstream had pretty much projected as fair value. The surprise for me is that we took him even after drafting Thomas in the 3rd.

Mills, unquestionably productive, smart, impossible to lock down in college, was the undisputed heart and soul of his college team. Leadership, hands, reliability. There were pre-draft stories about him coaching his teammates on new formations during the game, adjusting his routes to compensate for defensive schemes... incredible heady stuff, and very much in line with BB's need for smart players who "understand" football as a science and an art.

In comparison, Green may become a good WR and may have some immediate upside in the kicking game. But he's not as fast as Bethel or as good a prospect overall as Bethel, coming out of college. If we're looking for a KR/PR specialist, is Green really the guy? Or is the better value in taking a no-name in the 7th round who broke all kinds of records in the kicking game?... oh, wait. We did. And we'd already taken a possible breakout receiver with elite upside in the 2nd. Green is an oversight I'm very willing to forgive.

Dumervil is an athletic, undersized college DE, who will probably be an NFL LB some day. This is a need, and in the 4th round, it was still an unfilled need. I'm a guy who wanted to take a LB in the 1st, so the fact that we escape the 4th without one had me scratching my head. Another guy is Mark Anderson, a DE from Alabama, who didn't go until the 5th, who I think could be a fit for our defensive scheme. I loved Anderson, pre-draft, and would have taken him in the 4th, if it had been me making the calls. But BB/SP passed on him, not only to take Mills, but also to take Gostkowski and O'Callaghan, who by my reckoning is our #4 or #5 OT, competing with some very credible prospects like Britt and Yates for the honor of being inactive every week.

All I can say is, the staff seem very pleased with Mincey and it looks like Beisel has had a good offseason. Even without a 4th round receiver, I'm very pleased with our incoming receiving corp. BB/SP know their prospects, and even though I'm borderline obsessive about Patriots personnel management, they know their team better than I do.