Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Ochmed Jones, Jan 25, 2013.

  1. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    Although I still think BB trades out of the first round completely, if he can not find a dance partner, I see a couple of Cornerbacks on the board at the end of the first round that should intrigue BB.

    Banks of Miss State, depending on how he runs, SEC corner, physical with lots of coverage skills and game experience.

    Rhodes of Florida State physical at the LOS, not so much in the running game. Decent coverage skills.

    I think it is very easy for BB to come back in the second round and grab OLB Chase Thomas of Stanford , moving Hightower inside and kicking Spikes to some "slow" folks home in Florida!
  2. Sciz

    Sciz Supporter Supporter

    I'd prefer that Belichick get a CB in free agency rather than the draft, but there are definitely some good options there, and you mentioned my two favorites. Depending how they run, I think both of them have the chance to be out of the Pats' range, though.

    And it's funny that you mention getting rid of Spikes in favor of Thomas, because reports from the Senior Bowl were that Thomas was absolutely atrocious in coverage, not even able to cover Michael Williams, who is probably a 4.9-5.0 guy.
  3. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

    It's the biggest question mark headed into the off-season if we don't keep Talib. Honestly, I'd rather sign a veteran than draft another one early. What do you think of DRC if we don't re-up Talib? He's been healthier and doesn't have all of the off-field baggage Talib had. I'd be less hesitant to give him a big contract than Talib.

    My long term plan is to play Hightower at that flex-end position Ninkovich does now. Would love to pick up Ogletree with our first. Improves team speed at two positions. LDE and WOLB. If Spikes leaves at the end of the year, can always move Mayo back inside. Either draft a Sam there in 2014 or keep Hightower there.
  4. Sciz

    Sciz Supporter Supporter

    The thing with DRC is that his "character" problems are related to football. He sometimes just doesn't seem to care, and his level of play has gone downhill fast. He's got all the talent in the world, but isn't using it and really hasn't used it outside his last year and a half or so in Arizona. With Talib, at least his red flags are off the field and injuries, not competitiveness or desire to play.
  5. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey

    Tony Pauline believes NFL teams have the CB's ranked thus:

    Senior Bowl Notes
  6. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Those are his likely CB choices as Miliner will go too high. Both have size. I'd still be inclined to take a DT if one is still available. I'd rely instead on the current secondary participants, plus health, more continuity and experience. A later pick in the secondary could help upgrade the depth though.
  7. Merril Hoge's Tie Knot

    Merril Hoge's Tie Knot Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Damn. That would put BWW around the 50th best player.
  8. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I had been thinking about DL until BB signed the USC kid from Toronto.

    It seems to me that between Pryor, sometimes Cunningham and now this USC kid, BB is searching for someone to give him an inside pass rusher to get pressure on the QB.

    Maybe, as teams facing the Patriots spread the field more, BB thinks a dynamic between the tackles pass rushers is a better option than the traditional around the OT pas rusher. A between the tackles pas rusher is a type pass rusher to give scrambling QB's fits if the outside guys are playing contain.
  9. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow Supporter Supporter

    #87 Jersey

    I wouldn't mind two CBs in rounds 3, 4, or 5 via trade down. Hopefully Talib or Keenan Lewis is signed so our #1 and #2 CB spots are all good. Something like Leon Mcfadden and Tyrann Mathieu. I'd rather WR, S, OL, or DE be used in rounds 1 or 2.

    1. Talib
    2. Dennard
    3. Mathieu-nickelback (R)
    4. Dowling
    5. McFadden (R)
  10. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

    Don't forget as all the negatives are coming in on these kids that Talib was called athletic and fast but a bit stiff. he had the same wrap that a bigger kid like BWW had. This doesn't mean Blidi is the next Talib, but it's hard to put too much emphasis on what you read from people watching the Senior Bowl.
  11. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth In the Starting Line-Up

    The problem is that CBs always go higher than they are rated unless there are serious character concerns. The reason of course is that CB is the most coveted skill in the draft after QB. Quality CBs are very hard to find and every team needs them.

    Trading down out of the first for a CB is really risky. Look at all the 2'd and 3'd round CB flops that the Patriots have drafted.
  12. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey

    Especially Banks and Rhodes who have ideal size. Rhodes in particular, I think will jump up to the middle of the first round.
  13. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth In the Starting Line-Up

    I see this every year when I buy my draft guides. There are usually a few CB prospects that project to go at the end of the first round so I get very interested in but come draft day they go in the teens or earlier. Teams are desperate for CBs. I think that it is the hardest player to find--even harder than QBs.
  14. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    No Jersey Selected

    For that reason perhaps Bill would consider franchising Talib, so he could give himself one more year
    to see what if anything Glas-IR has to offer, before he has to use another top-60 draft pick on a CB.
  15. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey

  16. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

    Well if we don't resign Talib or Dennard gets jailtime. If either of those happens then CB becomes absolutely a critical position. BB wiffs all the time on 2nd/3rd round pick CBs. I have more confidence if he takes a corner in the 1st because he is sure that guy will be a starter. In the 2nd round there are plenty of choices for depth DTs. Sylvester Williams, etc.
  17. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    No Jersey Selected

    The write-up claims that he isn't suited to play press coverage which, IIRC, is the style that our starting corners were asked to play this season. If Arrington isn't re-signed, and a replacement isn't found during pre-draft free agency, then I would start to consider him while waiting for our 3rd-rounder.
  18. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey

    He's not the most physical because of his size, not through lack of effort. He plays man coverage really well and he's a back-pocket guy - he'll always be in the back pocket of the receiver. Where he's outstanding is in reacting to play in front of him and jumping the ball. Also has very good ball skills.

    He's a great pick as a third rounder. He might not be pencilled in to start as an outside receiver initially but in two years, he'll be starting on the outside for whichever team picks him because he excels at what he's supposed to - ie cover receivers. He's potentially another Brent Grimes.

    Edit: One thing to bear in mind regarding McFadden's size. He has a bigger wingspan and longer arms than Trufant, Poyer and Jamar Taylor who are all an inch or so taller so it's not as though he's being dwarfed by these borderline 1st/2nd rounders.
  19. chevss454

    chevss454 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    I found this article about CBs by Eric Stoner, to be pretty helpful. I'm really interested in Jamar Taylor and David Amerson for the Pats. Unfortunately, he didn't evaluate them yet. Every one of the CBs in this draft has at least 1 flaw in their game which prevents any 1 of them from being elite. For that reason, it's important to realize the flaws and choose a CB who fills a specific role within a particular defensive philosophy.

    Rhodes, for example, is a physical CB but gets too physical too often. He'll be penalized in the NFL for grabbing receivers as he did in college, but he's not fast enough as a CB to run with most NFL receivers. To me, he's a S.

    Poyer is very stout below the waist, an advantage he uses to jam receivers successfully but his lack of speed & short arms will ultimately cost him. Poyer doesn't have the closing speed to play zone and he can't play man press if his man escapes the LOS, so where do you play him?

    McFadden & Alford are suited for zone coverage only & are liabilities in both run support & in the RZ. Think Wheatley but shorter. I know McFadden is your guy, Manxman but he scares me a little.

    Dee Milliner is just like Asante Samuel to me but not as fast. He avoids tackling when at all possible and freelances often; maybe his freelancing was allowed b/c of Bama's incredible D. That can probably be coached. His run support is adequate. He has the size, ball skills and instincts though and he's very young (20 yrs old) with upside. Right now, he's my #1 CB but he isn't perfect by any stretch and he'll likely be gone before we pick anyway.

    Jonathan Banks is #1 or #2 on a lot of lists although I find myself more in agreement with this assessment of Banks. He played mostly Cover 3 at Miss St. meaning he always had deep help which allowed him to take chances. And he took a lot of chances. He can often be seen bailing off his receiver to cut an underneath guy for an interception. This worked for him in college but this will cost TDs in the NFL. His cover technique is raw but he's a willing tackler. He could be a natural S convert in the NFL.

    Webb is a guy with incredible athleticism but he's a pure zone CB. His length and athleticism may appeal to BB for use in zone schemes but his strength is a concern in run support.

    Trufant is another guy like Banks who is over-rated to me. He's physically gifted but he plays dumb-as-a-post on the field. As Stoner said, he routinely gets fooled by double moves and often loses contact in coverage. NFL receivers will eat him alive b/c of his poor technique. Trufant needs coaching for technique and discipline.

    Jamar Taylor of Boise St. intrigues me as a day 2 pick although he's been rising on some mocks. He's very good in press coverage, very physical at the catch point and technically sound to stay with breaks and double moves. He's also excellent in run support & an accomplished tackler. He's been under the radar somewhat until recently. Taylor plays smart and that may appeal to BB the same way it appeals to me.

    The Combine may have its faults but one position the Combine can be useful for is CB. Speed and quickness are essential and the Combine will be very important to finalizing thoughts on these players.
  20. edboc

    edboc On the Game Day Roster

    I'd agree they are going to trade to get more picks in the middle rounds.

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