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Convince me Welker + 2nd > KCurtis - 2nd

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by tombonneau, Mar 3, 2007.

  1. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    These are ostensibly similar WRs. (Let's put aside the fact that they are white.) Both are smaller, Curtis more of a speed guy than Welker. Both are what, 4-5th year? Both have had about a year of play to prove they can be capable #2 guys, and excellent #3s.

    I'd imagine Curtis is going to sign for about the same, maybe a bit more than Welker, but let's really call the salary a constant.

    Convince me that Welker + the pick > Curtis - pick.

    Is BB really that enamored with what WW brings to the table with the return game?
  2. dtbrks

    dtbrks Rookie

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    I wish I could
  3. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I basically agree with you. Not because I think Welker isn't better than Curtis, but because the pick outweighs the difference between the two.

    One could make the argument that losing Welker weakens Miami. But then again, Miami now has an extra draft pick on day one in a very very deep draft.
  4. Warren94

    Warren94 Rookie

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    the 60th pick is four picks away from the third round. I don't have a problem with the pick. I am curious to see how much he is going to cost minus the poison pill.
  5. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 Rookie

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    LOL for that question, BB would narrow his eyes, and then go on in a very dull, droning voice, "well, there are three phases in the game. And ST is a important aspect of that game. "
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  6. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bingo-----------
  7. Warren94

    Warren94 Rookie

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    lol no doubt.
  8. Keegs

    Keegs Rookie

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    I think he is

    and it makes Miami weaker, so that's just kinda funny
  9. NE_PATS_FAN_54

    NE_PATS_FAN_54 Rookie

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    welker- 25 years old, 3 years exp., 67 rec., 1 td
    curtis- 28 years old, 4 years exp., 40 rec., 4 td

    also i would like to add that taking welker away from the pats division rival also adds to the incentive.
  10. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    I still haven't made up my mind myself how I feel about it. I love Welker, and think he will be a great Patriot, but a 2nd is a 2nd. When I heard the news I was all for it, a 2nd seemed a solid cost for a guy like Welker, but then I started thinking about Curtis and what he brings to the table, and thought the variance between he and Welker was not greater than the cost of a #2.

    I suppose it has a lot to do with the familiarity BB has with WW, having played him 2x year for the past 3-4 years, vs. never really game planning vs. Curtis.

    Given that BB & co. have broken down Welker 2x/yr, I'm going to have to take it on faith that he is that much better than Curtis.
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think we can convince you now. We probably can't convince ourselves.

    However, four points :

    - Don't discount the return game. It's REALLY important.
    - Belichick has faced Welker twice a year for years now.
    - Belichick and Saban can talk again, Saban knows Welker well.
    - Welker has had guys like Harrington throwing to him, Curtis has had Bulger and both Holt and Bruce taking the defense away from him.
  12. PatDaPatriot

    PatDaPatriot Rookie

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    Curtis is going to sign a big contract with Detroit. He's been linked with them for a long time. Supposedly, he really wants to play for Mike Martz again. Not sure how realistic it would've been to get the guy...
  13. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    And therein will lie the genius of this deal, imo. Curtis is a very similar WR, and the one I would have wanted before the deal. But he is sure to be part of a bidding war and will probably draw the face value money that WW is contracted for. If this contract isn't backloaded with lots of dead unearnable, uncappable money, I'll tend to agree with you. But my guess is, this thing is loaded with it, and a guarantee via the poison pill for the fins. So we probably got a Curtis clone for realistically will be about half the price and cap hit, plus the pick. Much much better deal that way.
  14. Fumblerooski

    Fumblerooski Rookie

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    Does Curtis want to come here? You have to add that to the equation.

    I think BB is looking at Welker as a replacement for Troy Brown and is willing to pay the going rate to get him.

    Look at who they have signed already - they are as replacments for players lost in FA.

    Graham - Brady
    Dillon - Morris
    TBC or Seau - Thomas

    Seau/TBC- ? Need one more LB
    Brown if he retires - ? (Welker)
  15. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Easy. Wes Welker is a proven special teams player in all aspects of special teams (KR/PR/kick coverage/punt coverage) while Kevin Curtis has a whopping 9 KR on his resume. Yes, Curtis is a slitghly more polished receiver, but he doesn't seem to get the YAC that Welker does.

    Also, I just looked up Curtis splits. He's much better at home, in the Dome, than on the road. Almost a 5 yard per catch difference. At home, he was getting 14.4 YPC while on the road he was getting 9.6 YPC.

    I wanted either or when it came to the two. I am very happy with Welker and obviously the Pats are as well.
  16. Canada's #1 Pats Fan

    Canada's #1 Pats Fan Rookie

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    Vrabel was a RFA, wan't he? I'm sure most of us went, who, when the Pats signed him years ago. I put this in the same boat with the Vrabel signing. Welker will absoultely explode in our offense. He is Troy Brown II! He will be more than worht the secound round pick.
  17. Patstopia

    Patstopia Rookie

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    As I said in an earlier thread. Welker reminds me of Troy Brown. I think he gives everything he has on every play. A playmaker!
  18. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    Welker is a special teams ace and I'm assuming that the Pats will be able to get him at a cheaper salary.

    We have enough picks in this draft to give up no. 60.
  19. dhamz

    dhamz Rookie

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    I think the 2 things at work here are probably a huge recommendation by Saban which would mean a lot to BB and the special teams factor.

    I do like Welker as a player but I'm not sure that I agree with the decision because I think it is a lot to give for a slot WR and an average return man.
  20. chowder

    chowder Rookie

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    would you be convinced if that 2nd was for a player that ended up being like marquise hill or bethel johnson? I think Welker and Curtis are both good players, but Welker's versatility in the return game and ST makes him worth a 2nd and he is additionally a known commodity. Plus, he won't be torching us again in any games like he did last year.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2007
  21. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Exactly. Our 2nd rounder last year hasn't turned out great so far. I am concerned though that the interest in Welker spells the end for Troy Brown. I was really hoping he'd come back for one more season.
  22. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    Here's my take. First of all we have all seen Welker several times, while we haven't seen much of Curtis. The only thing that I can see that is to the advatage of Curtis is his reported raw speed. Perhaps the Pats see Welker as being the quicker more explosive receiver.

    The other more obvious advantage is special teams. Think about it. A wide receiver on an average game will get 4-7 touches to effect a game. Assuming the one KO and 3 scores by our opponent, and at least 4 punts; as a KR Welker would get 8 touches beyond whatever passes he'd catch. In other words he'd have on average twice as many touches per game as Curtis. thus he'd likely be more impactful every game.

    That being concidered, Welker is the better value, DESPITE giving up the second as opposed to Curtis' likely bigger contract and no loss of a pick.
  23. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    The Rams just signed Bennett for their WR corps. Is the end arriving for Isaac Bruce? I'd like him as the extra WR for the Pats. Or Eric Moulds perhaps.

    That allows Caldwell, Gaffney, Welker, Bruce/Moulds and CJ. a young deep WR corps full of good NFL WRs. Especially with a TE corps of Ben, Dave and Kyle.
  24. feelthepain

    feelthepain Banned

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    Welker is going into his 3rd season.
  25. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    GREAT lead-off question ... and good stuff in reply.
    Esp., the Detroit angle and salary levels in general (forget the offer sheet razzmatazz!)

    Deb, i feel your pain. But remember this:
    Troy will be just a phone call away ... leading our famed shadow roster,
    ahead even of Vinny Blanda, er, Testaverde.
  26. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    What's goin on with Fin Heaven?

    It's been down for a while.
  27. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    The answer is simple. These guys aren't products made of the same components, they're individuals.

    If the Patriots like Welker, they won't have another chance to get him once he signs long term somewhere.

    It's likely there were a lot of backup linebackers with potential in the last 6 years. The Patriots saw something in Vrabel and went after him.

    Maybe Piolichick could explain why and maybe it's just a feeling.

    One Mike Vrabel signing is worth a boatload of low 2nd round picks, even if similar linebacker named Vike Mrabel, (for example), was available.
  28. feelthepain

    feelthepain Banned

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    Not sure, it's a brutal site, it has more problems then any site I visit, 10x more!
  29. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

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    Yeah I was on it a little today and it was very slow.
  30. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    If he is an RFA then he is going into this fourth season.

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