Contolling the narrative........and other assorted subjects

[patfanken]

The news of the emailgate is obviously positive from the Patriot's point of view. Yet the narrative hasn't changed it has only shifted. This morning I was channel surfing and hit on CSN for a second before I heard one of their baseball guys (Buckely) comment that now BOTH sides look bad. This drives me nuts. I can only compare to a saying after proof comes out showing the girl was raped, and saying "now both sides look bad.

This fiasco has always been about the narrative and who controlled it. The NFL has always been about the narrative and clearly they've done a great job (along with their minions) at controlling it.....even when the evidence was always against them. Even now, when it is become clearer that this entire affair has been simply a conspiracy of a few league officials to try and hurt the Patriots organization and bring them back to the pack, they STILL seem to have the upper hand. So how do we change it?

1. We all should first present the notion that this was all done by a small group of officials who couldn't beat the Pats on the field, so they had to try and do it off the field.

Yes, I know this isn't sexy like a "smoking gun" email. Yes it really doesn't address any specifics of the case. And yes I know it isn't scientific. But it is simple concept that other fans can identify with, and understand. Something that isn't about the Idea Gas Laws, or "he said she said" recriminations. It doesn't require evidence or experts to understand. and absorb.

We are fight for the hearts and minds, NOT of Pats fans, but for the rest of the casual NFL fan or even non-fans. THOSE are the ones who are the most easily fooled by the PR tactics the NFL has used for the last 6 months. Lead with this concept and THEN let the evidence prove the point.

2. I said on the day that the NFL came out with their "Tom destroyed his cell phone" bomb, that the tide will eventually turn, but not for some time. Right now with emailgate revelations, we are now getting to the even point with the media FINALLY acknowledging the League's culpability in this passion play, yet they are still questioning Brady and the Pats. It's almost like the public is ready to declare "a pox on both their houses", and move on. THIS is what we have to stop. It really doesn't do us any good, if the court simply lifts the suspension and that's it.

3. We have to continue to support the efforts of groups like the FUA (Fans United for Accountability) If you want to do more than post stuff here and rail against the wind, we have do what we can when these opportunities arise. We can also take our fight to other boards and illuminate fans of other teams with the truth. If we idly sit by and just be people who know the truth, yet sit on our hands, evil will win.

4. Here is a question I think needs to be asked. What did Roger Goodell say to Bob Kraft that May day that caused him to cave when Kraft knew how weak the NFL's case was????? I cannot believe that it simply was in exchange for a "better deal for Tom". WTF is a "better deal for Tom" when nothing but complete exoneration taint him forever? There has to be something more, and that scares me a bit, because I have no clue to what it is. Did the Pats do something horribly wrong or did he have proof Bob cheated on Myra before she passed?

5. I'm going down to see camp in the next couple of days. Hopefully they'll be in pads, so I actually will get some substance from it. A few things I'll be looking for in particular.

a. Aaron Dobson - I've been supportive of him. I want to see for myself if it was justified.
b. All the young interior OLmen. Is Flemming playing G or T. How the rookies look, etc?
c. The CB's - specifically Fletcher and Ryan.

Bottom line - it is still every early in camp. Lots to see before the season starts

6. While the court case that is now in session looks positive, I contend that regardless of how it works out, it should be remembered that the law here is VERY narrow. ONLY a defamation case will expose the NFL's culpability and wholly exonerate Tom Brady from this witch hunt and slander.

 

[JoeSixPat]

3. We have to continue to support the efforts of groups like the FUA (Fans United for Accountability) If you want to do more than post stuff here and rail against the wind, we have do what we can when these opportunities arise. We can also take our fight to other boards and illuminate fans of other teams with the truth. If we idly sit by and just be people who know the truth, yet sit on our hands, evil will win.

First of all - good shout out to these guys. You can do nothing or you can do something - and if you want to do something, get behind these guys and/or help them outright... though I'd suggest doing more to help these guys as taking the truth to other message boards is akin to beating your head against a wall.

Getting the media involved and demanding that a truly independent investigation into the NFL itself is what is necessary

And in terms of your "Controlling the Narrative" subject line here - you are correct. And from Day One the NFL was always in position to control the Narrative and the headlines, always having a head start over the Patriots .

As a PR guy I've told clients that the key to winning in similar situations is defining your enemey before they define you - once that's established in the public's mind it's difficult to change. Nothing short of seeing Goodell's office embroiled in it's OWN scandal given what has transpired will ever change the minds of the masses - but the good news is Goodell has left a virtual trail of breadLOAVES for SOMEONE to follow - but maybe that has to be Brady in a defamation suit

I'm preparing myself for the fact that Brady will lose his appeal - he shouldn't but I have a feeling the judge is going to take a very narrow view of the issues and avoid setting a precedent - thought the fact that the NFLPA and the CBA are very different from most labor agreements, and what I think is a clear pattern of deceit from the League, that the judge would want to see justice served

All the more reason to get behind guys like the FUA (hey Ken - we can start "Fans United for Fans United For Accountability!"

Ideally I'd hope some self promoting attorney representing season ticket holders might decide to file a class action lawsuit - we as fans are being deprived the ability to watch Brady play due to corruption in the NFL offices. It would at least draw attention to the issues at hand

On the emails, it at least does illustrate that the NFL had zero interest in stopping a story that is now accepted that they started - when Goodell looks bad it's immediately corrected and when it's the hated team keeping Goodell out of the headlines about his botching of the Ray Rice situation (an investigation where Roger refused to give up his personal cell phone no less) the League does absolutely nothing - that's now established

I'd suggest it also sets the context for any reluctance Brady may have had in fully and completely trusting Goodell's office (all while setting a huge new precedent for his fellow NFLPA members) when it comes to actually giving up his phone.

On what Kraft and Goodell said? I'm inferring quite a bit but I think it's clear that the other owners - rightly or wrongly - wanted a pound of flesh for perceived/misperceived wrongs committed against them (I'm being kind here - I think they realize nothing occurred - at least not in that game - but they were happy to see FrameGate develop) - and if they had a big fine and a lost draft pick, that would be enough to appease the other owners that they got SOMETHING for themselves from this.

So ultimately I sincerely believe that Kraft thought in giving up a 1st rounder he was helping to foster Brady's exoneration at best, and reduced to eliminated suspension at worst. He discovered what we knew all along - and which Kraft truly should have - that Goodell cannot be trusted.

That itself - the fact that some other owners were willing to wink at the Brady frame-up given their personal benefit - may be at the heart of what is really a dual scandal. Goodell needing to restore credibility post-Ray Rice... and the other owners, both wanting to see Goodell restore his credibility while knocking the Patriots chance of winning another Super Bowl back a bit

Sadly all of this illustrates that there is an inherent unfairness in the NFL, emanating from the individual who so righteously claims to protect the integrity of the shield.

Hopefully more in the mainstream media will grasp the fact that THIS is he true context of everything that has taken place to date - that Goodell, Kensil and certain owners all had the means, motive, opportunity to put this self-serving scheme into effect.

 

[vyrago]

The news of the emailgate is obviously positive from the Patriot's point of view. Yet the narrative hasn't changed it has only shifted. This morning I was channel surfing and hit on CSN for a second before I heard one of their baseball guys (Buckely) comment that now BOTH sides look bad. This drives me nuts. I can only compare to a saying after proof comes out showing the girl was raped, and saying "now both sides look bad.

This fiasco has always been about the narrative and who controlled it. The NFL has always been about the narrative and clearly they've done a great job (along with their minions) at controlling it.....even when the evidence was always against them. Even now, when it is become clearer that this entire affair has been simply a conspiracy of a few league officials to try and hurt the Patriots organization and bring them back to the pack, they STILL seem to have the upper hand. So how do we change it?

1. We all should first present the notion that this was all done by a small group of officials who couldn't beat the Pats on the field, so they had to try and do it off the field.

Yes, I know this isn't sexy like a "smoking gun" email. Yes it really doesn't address any specifics of the case. And yes I know it isn't scientific. But it is simple concept that other fans can identify with, and understand. Something that isn't about the Idea Gas Laws, or "he said she said" recriminations. It doesn't require evidence or experts to understand. and absorb.

We are fight for the hearts and minds, NOT of Pats fans, but for the rest of the casual NFL fan or even non-fans. THOSE are the ones who are the most easily fooled by the PR tactics the NFL has used for the last 6 months. Lead with this concept and THEN let the evidence prove the point.

2. I said on the day that the NFL came out with their "Tom destroyed his cell phone" bomb, that the tide will eventually turn, but not for some time. Right now with emailgate revelations, we are now getting to the even point with the media FINALLY acknowledging the League's culpability in this passion play, yet they are still questioning Brady and the Pats. It's almost like the public is ready to declare "a pox on both their houses", and move on. THIS is what we have to stop. It really doesn't do us any good, if the court simply lifts the suspension and that's it.

3. We have to continue to support the efforts of groups like the FUA (Fans United for Accountability) If you want to do more than post stuff here and rail against the wind, we have do what we can when these opportunities arise. We can also take our fight to other boards and illuminate fans of other teams with the truth. If we idly sit by and just be people who know the truth, yet sit on our hands, evil will win.

4. Here is a question I think needs to be asked. What did Roger Goodell say to Bob Kraft that May day that caused him to cave when Kraft knew how weak the NFL's case was????? I cannot believe that it simply was in exchange for a "better deal for Tom". WTF is a "better deal for Tom" when nothing but complete exoneration taint him forever? There has to be something more, and that scares me a bit, because I have no clue to what it is. Did the Pats do something horribly wrong or did he have proof Bob cheated on Myra before she passed?

5. I'm going down to see camp in the next couple of days. Hopefully they'll be in pads, so I actually will get some substance from it. A few things I'll be looking for in particular.

a. Aaron Dobson - I've been supportive of him. I want to see for myself if it was justified.
b. All the young interior OLmen. Is Flemming playing G or T. How the rookies look, etc?
c. The CB's - specifically Fletcher and Ryan.

Bottom line - it is still every early in camp. Lots to see before the season starts

6. While the court case that is now in session looks positive, I contend that regardless of how it works out, it should be remembered that the law here is VERY narrow. ONLY a defamation case will expose the NFL's culpability and wholly exonerate Tom Brady from this witch hunt and slander.

Buckley made me want to puke also. How about thinking you gaping aholes? Would that be too hard?

 

[patfanken]

Buckley made me want to puke also. How about thinking you gaping aholes? Would that be too hard?

THAT is exactly the problem here. The NFL has done such a good job of muddying the waters, that ANYone who doesn't take the time and effort to actually study the matter in depth, is going to feel torn by the NFL's PR assault.

For a VERY long time the league offices have had the upper hand, and first impressions are hard to change. Unfortunately you can make every relevant point to destroy the League Office narrative, but you can't defeat this one. "If the Pats are innocent, why did their owner accept the penalties".

The response is more complicated than most people, especially someone who coming into the discussion with a bias to dislike the Pats for all the reasons we deal with every day. So they don't. It will take a lot to get that one fixed and it will take some time.

Meanwhile, Joe got it right. Think about it this way. Every individual person we get to at least look at what the NFL league office has done, we are starting to change the narrative. There isn't going to be a single silver bullet that is going to make it all go away, as much as we all would like it to. Unfortunately it's going to take a lot of hard work and persistence to take OUR message and over come the Advantage the league offices have had. Not that we can't do it, It just will take time and persistence.

 

[rochrist]

The news of the emailgate is obviously positive from the Patriot's point of view. Yet the narrative hasn't changed it has only shifted. This morning I was channel surfing and hit on CSN for a second before I heard one of their baseball guys (Buckely) comment that now BOTH sides look bad. This drives me nuts. I can only compare to a saying after proof comes out showing the girl was raped, and saying "now both sides look bad.

This fiasco has always been about the narrative and who controlled it. The NFL has always been about the narrative and clearly they've done a great job (along with their minions) at controlling it.....even when the evidence was always against them. Even now, when it is become clearer that this entire affair has been simply a conspiracy of a few league officials to try and hurt the Patriots organization and bring them back to the pack, they STILL seem to have the upper hand. So how do we change it?

1. We all should first present the notion that this was all done by a small group of officials who couldn't beat the Pats on the field, so they had to try and do it off the field.

Yes, I know this isn't sexy like a "smoking gun" email. Yes it really doesn't address any specifics of the case. And yes I know it isn't scientific. But it is simple concept that other fans can identify with, and understand. Something that isn't about the Idea Gas Laws, or "he said she said" recriminations. It doesn't require evidence or experts to understand. and absorb.

We are fight for the hearts and minds, NOT of Pats fans, but for the rest of the casual NFL fan or even non-fans. THOSE are the ones who are the most easily fooled by the PR tactics the NFL has used for the last 6 months. Lead with this concept and THEN let the evidence prove the point.

2. I said on the day that the NFL came out with their "Tom destroyed his cell phone" bomb, that the tide will eventually turn, but not for some time. Right now with emailgate revelations, we are now getting to the even point with the media FINALLY acknowledging the League's culpability in this passion play, yet they are still questioning Brady and the Pats. It's almost like the public is ready to declare "a pox on both their houses", and move on. THIS is what we have to stop. It really doesn't do us any good, if the court simply lifts the suspension and that's it.

3. We have to continue to support the efforts of groups like the FUA (Fans United for Accountability) If you want to do more than post stuff here and rail against the wind, we have do what we can when these opportunities arise. We can also take our fight to other boards and illuminate fans of other teams with the truth. If we idly sit by and just be people who know the truth, yet sit on our hands, evil will win.

4. Here is a question I think needs to be asked. What did Roger Goodell say to Bob Kraft that May day that caused him to cave when Kraft knew how weak the NFL's case was????? I cannot believe that it simply was in exchange for a "better deal for Tom". WTF is a "better deal for Tom" when nothing but complete exoneration taint him forever? There has to be something more, and that scares me a bit, because I have no clue to what it is. Did the Pats do something horribly wrong or did he have proof Bob cheated on Myra before she passed?

5. I'm going down to see camp in the next couple of days. Hopefully they'll be in pads, so I actually will get some substance from it. A few things I'll be looking for in particular.

a. Aaron Dobson - I've been supportive of him. I want to see for myself if it was justified.
b. All the young interior OLmen. Is Flemming playing G or T. How the rookies look, etc?
c. The CB's - specifically Fletcher and Ryan.

Bottom line - it is still every early in camp. Lots to see before the season starts

6. While the court case that is now in session looks positive, I contend that regardless of how it works out, it should be remembered that the law here is VERY narrow. ONLY a defamation case will expose the NFL's culpability and wholly exonerate Tom Brady from this witch hunt and slander.

Buckley has ALWAYS been of the school 'well, we know the Pats were doing something'.

 

[skinnydog]

Ken as to your #4, I don't think it was good ell who talked to RK, but some of the other owners. Hi billionaire buddies got to him. He's really part of that club and didn't want to lave the fold so to speak. Their pull on him was greater than his own fans and I think that is pretty clear. As to his actions having any effect on Brady's punishment that was incredibly naive. After everything that happened to that point in time including the things only the Pats knew about like the just released e-mail I can't imagine anyone thinking that would help. Clearly much of the league front office is out to get the Pats, once Bob caved it looked to anyone outside of NE that even the owner thought his QB was guilty and really once he caved the penalty I think was pretty much locked in because if not it would have looked like a back room deal to clear a cheating QB. It was dumb on so many levels I can only think senility is creeping in for RK

 

[JoeSixPat]

THAT is exactly the problem here. The NFL has done such a good job of muddying the waters, that ANYone who doesn't take the time and effort to actually study the matter in depth, is going to feel torn by the NFL's PR assault.

For a VERY long time the league offices have had the upper hand, and first impressions are hard to change. Unfortunately you can make every relevant point to destroy the League Office narrative, but you can't defeat this one. "If the Pats are innocent, why did their owner accept the penalties".

The response is more complicated than most people, especially someone who coming into the discussion with a bias to dislike the Pats for all the reasons we deal with every day. So they don't. It will take a lot to get that one fixed and it will take some time.

Meanwhile, Joe got it right. Think about it this way. Every individual person we get to at least look at what the NFL league office has done, we are starting to change the narrative. There isn't going to be a single silver bullet that is going to make it all go away, as much as we all would like it to. Unfortunately it's going to take a lot of hard work and persistence to take OUR message and over come the Advantage the league offices have had. Not that we can't do it, It just will take time and persistence.

The NFL has had the upper hand at every turn to date - and they've defined this issue in a way that fits with Goodell's overall goals - to make himself look like the pinacle of integrity in the NFL and tough on those who don't cooperate with his "independent investigations"

The Patriots will never win the Twitter Wars - in a day and age where public opinions are set without all the facts in the first 30 minutes of a story cycle... it's unfortunate but that's how mindless so many have become

But if and when someone with credibility in the media really begins to sink their teeth into this there's a very compelling story to be told

One only has to go back a few months to when a US District Court judge effectively called out Goodell for lying in the Ray Rice video-gate situation in his attempt to justify why he was taking a harder line on Rice following his initial 2 game suspension decision

Goodell said Rice lied to him. The District Court Judge said Goodell lied to EVERYONE

This is all documented though in not enough media outlets (and note, Hurley is also among those who THINKS the Patriots did SOMETHING - though at least he admits there's no real evidence of anything)

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/06/03/hurley-one-more-thought-on-roger-goodells-pledge-of-integrity/

This of course is the same investigation where Goodell refused to provide his personal cellphone

Which of course makes him both a liar and a hypocrite

This isn't name calling on my part - it's a fact, backed by a US District court judge

Why anyone would think that NOW, in this situation where Goodell was even MORE desparate to find a scapegoat and a scandal that would allow him to divert attention from his documented lying, and incompetence - I have no idea, but at the very least it demonstrates that jealousy over the Patriots success trumps logic and common sense among most NFL fandom

 

[patfanken]

The NFL has had the upper hand at every turn to date - and they've defined this issue in a way that fits with Goodell's overall goals - to make himself look like the pinacle of integrity in the NFL and tough on those who don't cooperate with his "independent investigations"

The Patriots will never win the Twitter Wars - in a day and age where public opinions are set without all the facts in the first 30 minutes of a story cycle... it's unfortunate but that's how mindless so many have become

But if and when someone with credibility in the media really begins to sink their teeth into this there's a very compelling story to be told

One only has to go back a few months to when a US District Court judge effectively called out Goodell for lying in the Ray Rice video-gate situation in his attempt to justify why he was taking a harder line on Rice following his initial 2 game suspension decision

Goodell said Rice lied to him. The District Court Judge said Goodell lied to EVERYONE

This is all documented though in not enough media outlets (and note, Hurley is also among those who THINKS the Patriots did SOMETHING - though at least he admits there's no real evidence of anything)

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/06/03/hurley-one-more-thought-on-roger-goodells-pledge-of-integrity/

This of course is the same investigation where Goodell refused to provide his personal cellphone

Which of course makes him both a liar and a hypocrite

This isn't name calling on my part - it's a fact, backed by a US District court judge

Why anyone would think that NOW, in this situation where Goodell was even MORE desparate to find a scapegoat and a scandal that would allow him to divert attention from his documented lying, and incompetence - I have no idea, but at the very least it demonstrates that jealousy over the Patriots success trumps logic and common sense among most NFL fandom

I agree with most everything you have said. Goodell's self interested actions have damaged the league and the game we all love. His parsimony and incompetence belies all logic.

However I disagree with your position that once an impression is set in the mind of the public, it cannot be changed. I agree that it's not easy, but in the end it can be done. It's just that it takes hard and persistent work. It's exactly this kind of necessary grunt work that has separated the Pats from the pack. It's doing what is not easy, but hard. It's out working you opponent, and being tougher and smarter. The evidence is on our side. The League offices have had to us blue smoke and mirrors to make their point. In the long run that's a plan that can't endure. The only way it CAN succeed is if we allow it. And the only way that happens is if we don't respond

 

[JoeSixPat]

I agree with most everything you have said. Goodell's self interested actions have damaged the league and the game we all love. His parsimony and incompetence belies all logic.

However I disagree with your position that once an impression is set in the mind of the public, it cannot be changed. I agree that it's not easy, but in the end it can be done. It's just that it takes hard and persistent work. It's exactly this kind of necessary grunt work that has separated the Pats from the pack. It's doing what is not easy, but hard. It's out working you opponent, and being tougher and smarter. The evidence is on our side. The League offices have had to us blue smoke and mirrors to make their point. In the long run that's a plan that can't endure. The only way it CAN succeed is if we allow it. And the only way that happens is if we don't respond

Agreed... not impossible... very difficult however... I wasn't ruling it out, just pointing out that what WE say as Pariots fans matters little

What's critical is educating and promoting independent voices in the media or elsewhere

There's a meaty story here - but it's a much more complicated one than the NFL presented against the Patriots, and simple minded people like simple explanations - not the long paper trail that Roger has left in this case

 

[PATS16N0]

The narrative for Patriot fans should be simple:

"LOL What a ****ing idiot you are to believe this stupid ****. You should be embarrassed. STFU with your dumb 9/11 truther stupidity."

But Patriot fans are thin skinned and need everybody to love them to they jump in their little canoe and starts rowing futilely up stream in a river of **** with needlessly long winded arguments.

 

[mihap]

The news of the emailgate is obviously positive from the Patriot's point of view. Yet the narrative hasn't changed it has only shifted. This morning I was channel surfing and hit on CSN for a second before I heard one of their baseball guys (Buckely) comment that now BOTH sides look bad. This drives me nuts. I can only compare to a saying after proof comes out showing the girl was raped, and saying "now both sides look bad.

This fiasco has always been about the narrative and who controlled it. The NFL has always been about the narrative and clearly they've done a great job (along with their minions) at controlling it.....even when the evidence was always against them. Even now, when it is become clearer that this entire affair has been simply a conspiracy of a few league officials to try and hurt the Patriots organization and bring them back to the pack, they STILL seem to have the upper hand. So how do we change it?

1. We all should first present the notion that this was all done by a small group of officials who couldn't beat the Pats on the field, so they had to try and do it off the field.

Yes, I know this isn't sexy like a "smoking gun" email. Yes it really doesn't address any specifics of the case. And yes I know it isn't scientific. But it is simple concept that other fans can identify with, and understand. Something that isn't about the Idea Gas Laws, or "he said she said" recriminations. It doesn't require evidence or experts to understand. and absorb.

We are fight for the hearts and minds, NOT of Pats fans, but for the rest of the casual NFL fan or even non-fans. THOSE are the ones who are the most easily fooled by the PR tactics the NFL has used for the last 6 months. Lead with this concept and THEN let the evidence prove the point.

2. I said on the day that the NFL came out with their "Tom destroyed his cell phone" bomb, that the tide will eventually turn, but not for some time. Right now with emailgate revelations, we are now getting to the even point with the media FINALLY acknowledging the League's culpability in this passion play, yet they are still questioning Brady and the Pats. It's almost like the public is ready to declare "a pox on both their houses", and move on. THIS is what we have to stop. It really doesn't do us any good, if the court simply lifts the suspension and that's it.

3. We have to continue to support the efforts of groups like the FUA (Fans United for Accountability) If you want to do more than post stuff here and rail against the wind, we have do what we can when these opportunities arise. We can also take our fight to other boards and illuminate fans of other teams with the truth. If we idly sit by and just be people who know the truth, yet sit on our hands, evil will win.

4. Here is a question I think needs to be asked. What did Roger Goodell say to Bob Kraft that May day that caused him to cave when Kraft knew how weak the NFL's case was????? I cannot believe that it simply was in exchange for a "better deal for Tom". WTF is a "better deal for Tom" when nothing but complete exoneration taint him forever? There has to be something more, and that scares me a bit, because I have no clue to what it is. Did the Pats do something horribly wrong or did he have proof Bob cheated on Myra before she passed?

5. I'm going down to see camp in the next couple of days. Hopefully they'll be in pads, so I actually will get some substance from it. A few things I'll be looking for in particular.

a. Aaron Dobson - I've been supportive of him. I want to see for myself if it was justified.
b. All the young interior OLmen. Is Flemming playing G or T. How the rookies look, etc?
c. The CB's - specifically Fletcher and Ryan.

Bottom line - it is still every early in camp. Lots to see before the season starts

6. While the court case that is now in session looks positive, I contend that regardless of how it works out, it should be remembered that the law here is VERY narrow. ONLY a defamation case will expose the NFL's culpability and wholly exonerate Tom Brady from this witch hunt and slander.

4. Roger said to Kraft: Bob do u want to make more money, or u wanna support ur HOF QB?

5.a Iam on Dobson train and i hope that he ll become the star that he i stalented for
5b, o boy, i am so anxious bouut ur reports. Last year i was so high on cannnon and i was waiting for ur report bout him. Hope that this year will be oppsite bout rookies.
5c. Jimmmy Jean or Daryl Roberts to become darkorhorse. Butler becoming like Revis, but got bad feeling over Ryan(((deep in my hart he is overatted adn dont know why just intuition.

6. agree and as Ryan case i have bad feeling bout that too.

 

[patfanken]

Agreed... not impossible... very difficult however... I wasn't ruling it out, just pointing out that what WE say as Pariots fans matters little

What's critical is educating and promoting independent voices in the media or elsewhere

There's a meaty story here - but it's a much more complicated one than the NFL presented against the Patriots, and simple minded people like simple explanations - not the long paper trail that Roger has left in this case

And THAT's why I believe that of the defenses we have to offer, the one we lead with is "that this whole mess was caused by people who couldn't beat the Pats ON the field, so they are trying to destroy them of iti

That is a simple concept that will resonate with most fans, and get them to open their minds and LISTEN to you. THEN you can give them (in small doses )the more complex evidence that proves the main point

As Pats fans we no longer can understand the frustration and long standing anger other fan bases have because of the Pats long term and such consistent success. While their teams have sporadic success, it is easy to understand that they'd come to believe that the Pats MUST be doing something wrong or unfair to be this good for so long when other teams can't do the same. And I don't think it stops at the fan base.

It must be hard for owners to justify the up and down nature of THEIR performance, when the Pats continue to succeed year after year. These are all alpha male, super egos who have all had prior success. Continually watching the Pats rip off double digit win seasons makes it tougher to face their own fan base.
They all believe they are just as smart or smarter than Bob Kraft, so the only explanation they can come up with is that the Pats must be doing SOMETHING untoward. They have no idea what that is, but it MUST be something.

That's what we are up against. Kraft can expect little help from his fellow owners, especially when the NFL offices still have an upper hand. As the tide begins to turn (with our help) the ownership will begin to turn as well.

 

[Joker]

You guys should have listened to me years ago. You've all been looking at a white bird with an orange beak and webbed feet going "quack" and keep thinking it's a faithful Golden Retriever... a Goodell is a Goodell is a Goodell. Why do you think he destroyed the "Farcegate" tapes? To protect his "buddy", Kraft? Belichick TOLD you all finally, when he couldn't keep his promise to keep his mouth shut any longer in the face of this ridiculous chicanery. 60,000 people were there and saw the exact same things any camera anywhere saw.Mangini was chastised BY BB earlier in preseason for having TWO cameras at either end zone, field level, yet Goodell USED Mangini to attack BB and the Pats.

"What was on those tapes if you're so innocent!!!???!!!"...we've heard it a million times now. We can't answer because Goodell DESTROYED the tapes. To HELP US?? Guess what, Kensil WAS THERE THAT DAY TOO. Who was the NFL "official" from NFL offices who gathered up all the Patriot game tapes and then destroyed them later?? Gee whiz...LOOK!! another freakin' white feathered, orange beaked, webfooted flying creature!! It must be...uh..an AARDVAARK!! That's it, right Pats fans??

Stop beating yourselves up like the press has been beating up Brady for saying ":yeah, I THINK I'm innocent". You have done NOTHING to deserve this shytstorm rained down on you by this ignoroid, Goodell. Accept the FACT that this was ALWAYS the play from the day this jerkoff was voted in. He IS dirty, he IS engaged in organized criminal activity and he WILL , eventually, get his.

You, the loyal fans of the NEP and the good people of New England need only continue living your lives by the criteria we all hold dear...honesty ,responsibility,integrity and compassion. Let "Lucky" Luciano-dell and his mob of corporate thugs continue their criminal assaults in full view of the federal government law enforcement agencies.Just a matter of time ,Pats fans...a matter of time.

 

[JoeSixPat]

And THAT's why I believe that of the defenses we have to offer, the one we lead with is "that this whole mess was caused by people who couldn't beat the Pats ON the field, so they are trying to destroy them of iti

That is a simple concept that will resonate with most fans, and get them to open their minds and LISTEN to you. THEN you can give them (in small doses )the more complex evidence that proves the main point

As Pats fans we no longer can understand the frustration and long standing anger other fan bases have because of the Pats long term and such consistent success. While their teams have sporadic success, it is easy to understand that they'd come to believe that the Pats MUST be doing something wrong or unfair to be this good for so long when other teams can't do the same. And I don't think it stops at the fan base.

It must be hard for owners to justify the up and down nature of THEIR performance, when the Pats continue to succeed year after year. These are all alpha male, super egos who have all had prior success. Continually watching the Pats rip off double digit win seasons makes it tougher to face their own fan base.
They all believe they are just as smart or smarter than Bob Kraft, so the only explanation they can come up with is that the Pats must be doing SOMETHING untoward. They have no idea what that is, but it MUST be something.

That's what we are up against. Kraft can expect little help from his fellow owners, especially when the NFL offices still have an upper hand. As the tide begins to turn (with our help) the ownership will begin to turn as well.

I'm feeling more and more that the way to push, PR-wise, is to suggest the media look closer into the Ray Rice case seeing as this is now going to court

I think this started with Goodell's Ray Rice debacle - but I think folks need to be reminded that a US District Court felt that Goodell was lying about whether Rice mislead him in their investigation - you may recall Roger was trying to save face, and explain why he had been so lenient

Having a US District Court Judge's testimony about Goodell could well be a very timely and relevant reminder, given the upcoming court hearing we are looking at

http://espn.go.com/pdf/2014/1128/141128_rice-summary.pdf

Page 12 is a good place to focus on for quotes like this - basically the judge is saying she thinks Roger is full of $#%&

"The testimony of Commissioner Goodell and Birch is further diminished by the vagueness of their recollections. For example, when asked whether Rice used the word “struck” to describe Mrs. Rice hitting him, Commissioner Goodell testified, “I believe so, it has been several months.” "

Add to that a drumbeat of a call for an investigation into the league - as I believe Goodell initially assured would happen - could be the call to action

I have to think that any investigator could pull together those pieces

Heck - why don't we look around for our own Investigator and crowd source fund him?

Oh sure, everone's going to assume there's a bias if Patsfans are funding him, but we go out of our way to find someone credible, in the end, facts are facts - the report will receive some attention for it's novelty of being fan funded

As I think about it that might actually work! I have a suspicion more than a few Patsfans would be happy to support that endeavor!

 

[patfanken]

You guys should have listened to me years ago. You've all been looking at a white bird with an orange beak and webbed feet going "quack" and keep thinking it's a faithful Golden Retriever... a Goodell is a Goodell is a Goodell. Why do you think he destroyed the "Farcegate" tapes? To protect his "buddy", Kraft? Belichick TOLD you all finally, when he couldn't keep his promise to keep his mouth shut any longer in the face of this ridiculous chicanery. 60,000 people were there and saw the exact same things any camera anywhere saw.Mangini was chastised BY BB earlier in preseason for having TWO cameras at either end zone, field level, yet Goodell USED Mangini to attack BB and the Pats.

"What was on those tapes if you're so innocent!!!???!!!"...we've heard it a million times now. We can't answer because Goodell DESTROYED the tapes. To HELP US?? Guess what, Kensil WAS THERE THAT DAY TOO. Who was the NFL "official" from NFL offices who gathered up all the Patriot game tapes and then destroyed them later?? Gee whiz...LOOK!! another freakin' white feathered, orange beaked, webfooted flying creature!! It must be...uh..an AARDVAARK!! That's it, right Pats fans??

Stop beating yourselves up like the press has been beating up Brady for saying ":yeah, I THINK I'm innocent". You have done NOTHING to deserve this shytstorm rained down on you by this ignoroid, Goodell. Accept the FACT that this was ALWAYS the play from the day this jerkoff was voted in. He IS dirty, he IS engaged in organized criminal activity and he WILL , eventually, get his.

You, the loyal fans of the NEP and the good people of New England need only continue living your lives by the criteria we all hold dear...honesty ,responsibility,integrity and compassion. Let "Lucky" Luciano-dell and his mob of corporate thugs continue their criminal assaults in full view of the federal government law enforcement agencies.Just a matter of time ,Pats fans...a matter of time.

WOW Phil, I almost missed this post because I hadn't checked this thread for a while.

You couldn't be more right. On several of the threads I've been on lately, I've been tempted to bring back "cameraplacementgate", only to hesitate and try not to distract from the task at hand. And for that matter, I'm kind of "cameraplacementgate" fatigued, after 8 years of having to defend my team from the first NFL fraud. I can only hope that when the sh!t finally hits the fan on this. The Pats or some investigative reporter goes back to find out the truth. Like you said I'm sure this is starting to wear on BB as well as us.

At any rate thanks for reminding us that this isn't the first time Goodell over reacted and turned nothing into a huge scandal of his OWN making.

 

[patsfan13]

Kensil wants to destroy BB, for things that occurred between him and Kensil when BB was with the Jets. Camera Place Gate was their first shot. Then Harbuagh and Grigson handed Kensil and company what they hoped would be their kill shot.

Remember what Vincent's mouthpiece Steven A Smith regurgitated, if Bb were caught in another scandal he would be banned. That was the hoped for end game. Brady is collateral damage, they hope the suspension will cost BB a playoff berth, if no at least cost the Pats home field.

 

[Clonamery]

WOW Phil, I almost missed this post because I hadn't checked this thread for a while.

You couldn't be more right. On several of the threads I've been on lately, I've been tempted to bring back "cameraplacementgate", only to hesitate and try not to distract from the task at hand. And for that matter, I'm kind of "cameraplacementgate" fatigued, after 8 years of having to defend my team from the first NFL fraud. I can only hope that when the sh!t finally hits the fan on this. The Pats or some investigative reporter goes back to find out the truth. Like you said I'm sure this is starting to wear on BB as well as us.

At any rate thanks for reminding us that this isn't the first time Goodell over reacted and turned nothing into a huge scandal of his OWN making.

Who's Phil? Phil Kerr?

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

EDIT: I'll keep this focused on the thread contents

 

[fourhour]

You, the loyal fans of the NEP and the good people of New England need only continue living your lives by the criteria we all hold dear...honesty ,responsibility,integrity and compassion. Let "Lucky" Luciano-dell and his mob of corporate thugs continue their criminal assaults in full view of the federal government law enforcement agencies. Just a matter of time ,Pats fans...a matter of time.

You are the balls man! I look forward to your posts everyday! Keep up the good fight and if I can help please feel free to ask!

 

[MagicMarker]

I think it's important for the narrative to answer the "so what" part. Even people who think Brady is guilty probably think it was bad of the league to not correct PSI information. By what does it matter (i.e. so what?)

If the NFL had released the correct PSI information before the Wells report was released, anyone could have looked at those numbers, learned about the ideal gas law and concluded that there was no deflation at all and the whole thing would have gone away.

Everyone agrees on that, but the real point is much more sinister than that. It means the NFL decided two or three days after the AFC Championship that the Patriots were guilty and information had to be controlled until they could make a case for that.

By the time they released the Wells Report, with lots of convoluted and complicated science, people would ignore that little mishap, because well, they'd have proved it anyway.

I hope Judge Berman takes that into account.