connor barwin....defensive POM

[Ron Sellers]

I have to laugh because last year the mantra was that the defense sucked because turnovers are luck, and you can't depend on them happening.

Here we are twelve months later and now these people are saying that the Pats defense sucks because they're not getting enough turnovers.


:ugh:

 

[Rob0729]

Sacks and Points scored are stupid stats to use. Defensive passer rating isn't bad, but in the end it comes down Red Zone defense, turnovers, pressures and how you play against the good offenses. The ideal defense right now is probably Baltimore. They have 3 guys that can rush the passer, they have a play making safety and good tackling linebackers. They don't have Tom Brady we do. That the story of the 2011 AFC season. Every good team is missing components.

Case in point, Giants and Eagles have a lot of sacks. Didn't serve them too well against the Saints or Patriots.

Last year, the Jets had the same amount of sacks as the Pats, but what mattered was that they sacked Brady 4x and picked him off when it counted.

Trying to use stats to convince yourself or others whether this is a good defense or not is an exercise in futility. This question will again answer itself in January.

The thread was to discuss Barwin as another guy Belichick missed on. The defense is not great, they are going to need the offense to carry them again.

I agree with you that points is an irrelevant stat. Name the last time a team won the game winning the points battle. I can't remember the last time a team won a game outscoring the opposing team. Maybe back in the 50s.

It was only a matter of time that you would join this conversation though. illegalcontact must have gone recruiting his other Jets trolls on JI to join in. Seriously, does anyone really believe these two guys are really Pats fans? Probably the same guy posting under two accounts since they only seem to be around when the other one is.

 

[BSR]

Sacks and Points scored are stupid stats to use. Defensive passer rating isn't bad, but in the end it comes down Red Zone defense, turnovers, pressures and how you play against the good offenses. The ideal defense right now is probably Baltimore. They have 3 guys that can rush the passer, they have a play making safety and good tackling linebackers. They don't have Tom Brady we do. That the story of the 2011 AFC season. Every good team is missing components.

Case in point, Giants and Eagles have a lot of sacks. Didn't serve them too well against the Saints or Patriots.

Last year, the Jets had the same amount of sacks as the Pats, but what mattered was that they sacked Brady 4x and picked him off when it counted.

Trying to use stats to convince yourself or others whether this is a good defense or not is an exercise in futility. This question will again answer itself in January.

The thread was to discuss Barwin as another guy Belichick missed on. The defense is not great, they are going to need the offense to carry them again.

You missed the point. The point wasn't the Patriots were a good defense. It was that they have improved from last year. In certain areas they have.

As for the purpose of the thread, it was to troll. There is no discussion to be had about Barwin not being drafted by Belichick.

 

[IllegalContact]

Not being selective with data. Comparing apples to apples. Not comparing 16 games to 11 games. That is not an accurate comparison. Who did the Pats face the last five games last year? Matt Flynn, Jay Cutler in a blizzard, Mark Sanchez who the Pats face three weeks ago, Chad Henne/Tyler Thigpen (Henne was benched for Thigpen), and Ryan Fitzpatrick. The only good QB the Pats faced in the last 5 games was Cutler and he was hampered by the blizzard.

and so what QB's do the pats have left this year? orlovski? tebow? grossman? moore? fitzpatrick? is there a point in there somewhere? is this year's data going to somehow be more meaningful since we are playing this bunch of future HOF'ers?

 

[IllegalContact]

You missed the point. The point wasn't the Patriots were a good defense. It was that they have improved from last year. In certain areas they have.

As for the purpose of the thread, it was to troll. There is no discussion to be had about Barwin not being drafted by Belichick.

and in other ways, the pats have gotten worse on defense.

typical kkool-aid guzzler to call any dissention trolling

 

[IllegalContact]

I have to laugh because last year the mantra was that the defense sucked because turnovers are luck, and you can't depend on them happening.

Here we are twelve months later and now these people are saying that the Pats defense sucks because they're not getting enough turnovers.


:ugh:

did I say turnovers were luck?

 

[Rob0729]

and so what QB's do the pats have left this year? orlovski? tebow? grossman? moore? fitzpatrick? is there a point in there somewhere? is this year's data going to somehow be more meaningful since we are playing this bunch of future HOF'ers?

They don't have good QBs left. Never said they did, but that is why comparing equal periods of time are more relevant. The odds are whether or not the Pats defense has improved, their defensive numbers are going to get even better over the next month and a half. So if you want to wait until the end of the season where the Pats will be even better from last year in sacks and points allowed than they are now compared to the first 11 games, so be it. In five weeks, you will have no argument.

 

[BSR]

and in other ways, the pats have gotten worse on defense.

typical kkool-aid guzzler to call any dissention trolling

It isn't dissension that makes it trolling, its the lack of a rational argument or coherent point.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I thought we could have used Dunlap instead of Cunningham but I am not going to start "why didn't we draft" a guy everytime the player has a good game or even a good month.

If after 10 years go by and Barwin is heading to the HOF,this thread might have more reason...but now its just a spur of the moment thing that is unneccessary to have its OWN thread.

 

[IllegalContact]

It isn't dissension that makes it trolling, its the lack of a rational argument or coherent point.

actually, that's not the definition at all, but don't let that stop you

 

[IllegalContact]

I thought we could have used Dunlap instead of Cunningham but I am not going to start "why didn't we draft" a guy everytime the player has a good game or even a good month.

If after 10 years go by and Barwin is heading to the HOF,this thread might have more reason...but now its just a spur of the moment thing that is unneccessary to have its OWN thread.

just say 'you're probably right but I don't want to hear it right now'

 

[Ron Sellers]

did I say turnovers were luck?

Re-read my post.

That was what was being said over and over again by a certain group of people on this forum who seldom if ever have anything positive to say, typically complain rather than offer solutions, and for whom the glass is not only eternally half empty, it's bone dry.


But hey, if the shoe fits then feel free to wear it.

 

[BSR]

actually, that's not the definition at all, but don't let that stop you

Did I say it was the definition?

 

[Clonamery]

Did I say it was the definition?

No but he had to answer quick, it was recess.

 

[cavtroop]

relevant:

Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon) - YouTube

 

[NinjaZX6R]

OMG WHO THE HELL CARES! - YouTube

 

[Patjew]

hey.....thanks.......


Barwin shoulda been here tho

LOL. If he's as relentless as you are, I agree.

 

[Rob0729]

Twelve pages of dealing with ignorance. I think I am out. I am wholeheartily supporting any moderator who deems it neccessary to lock this thread or banish it to the practice squad.

 

[Patjew]

Twelve pages of dealing with ignorance. I think I am out. I am wholeheartily supporting any moderator who deems it neccessary to lock this thread or banish it to the practice squad.

Come on, Rob - this is fun. I'm stuck in an airline lounge in ORD en route to Hong Kong now, so this thread is a life saver to stave off my boredom.

I'm lame.

 

[everlong]

I really don't mind well stated and thought out criticism of the team. Unfortunately this thread has none of that and is a pretty big waste of time. I suggest you stop reading like I'm going to.