Congrats to Jerod Mayo on his 1st career int

[Deus Irae]

Not sure I follow but if you are making an attempt to state that Mayo and Bruschi are on the same play-making level, I disagree. From 2001-2004 (the years people remember and Bru's prime, he had 10 INTs, 12 sacks, 4 TDs, 30 passes defensed and 9 forced fumbles. I think you would agree that those numbers are Ray Lewis numbers.

If we're going to start evaluating every player based upon 3 year stretches from other players, and consider that to be the "floor" for the discussions, there are going to be about 10 players in the entire league worthy of being considered good.

The reality of the situation is that Mayo's numbers are comparing acceptably with Bruschi's numbers to this point in their respective careers, except when it comes to sacks, as two of Bruschi's three best sack years were his first two years in the league (4 sacks in each of his first two years). One could argue that Mayo's numbers should be better than Bruschi's to this point, but that would require a balancing of draft position/defensive style and schemes/etc..., and it would really just delve into unprovable areas.

I agree. It's expectations. I don't think we've seen Mayo's prime yet but to assume he'll reach the same level of production as Bru in his prime years is unrealistic. I'll take 1/2 that and be pretty satisfied.

If Mayo was playing with the same level of players that Bruschi had around him from 2001-2004, I think Mayo's "playmaker" numbers would be fine. I think people really overlook just how much more talent those teams had on defense than the recent and current squads, and how that allowed Romeo to use those players much differently than the recent DCs have been forced to use their players (this is something that Rodney Harrison has touched upon).

Mayo (perhaps) and Wilfork aside, there's probably not a single player on the current Patriots defense who'd be a starter for the 2001-2004 teams.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If we're going to start evaluating every player based upon 3 year stretches from other players, and consider that to be the "floor" for the discussions, there are going to be about 10 players in the entire league worthy of being considered good.

The reality of the situation is that Mayo's numbers are comparing acceptably with Bruschi's numbers to this point in their respective careers, except when it comes to sacks, as two of Bruschi's three best sack years were his first two years in the league (4 sacks in each of his first two years). One could argue that Mayo's numbers should be better than Bruschi's to this point, but that would require a balancing of draft position/defensive style and schemes/etc..., and it would really just delve into unprovable areas.

Understood but let me come at it from a different angle. From 1996 to 1998, Bru was a part-timer. From 1999-2001, Bru played more ILB/OLB and actually had comparable numbers to Mayo's (except tackles). I guess my point is that the next 3-5 years will be very telling in how Mayo is compared to Bru in my eyes. The other angle is that Bru made all-pro in 04 and Mayo made all-pro last year. If you are comparing playmaking numbers to their all-pro years, it's not close. My point is that Mayo is an outstanding, young LB. Hes just not in the same class as Bru. Now, if you put Mayo in the middle of those 01-04 Ds, would his number be better? A little, but I think Mayo is still learning wheras Bru was a seasoned vet by then.

If Mayo was playing with the same level of players that Bruschi had around him from 2001-2004, I think Mayo's "playmaker" numbers would be fine.

I think people really overlook just how much more talent those teams had on defense than the recent and current squads, and how that allowed Romeo to use those players much differently than the recent DCs have been forced to use their players (this is something that Rodney Harrison has touched upon).

Mayo (perhaps) and Wilfork aside, there's probably not a single player on the current Patriots defense who'd be a starter for the 2001-2004 teams.

I don't think Mayo would start either. McCourty's rookie year over Asante and Gay in 04 but I'm not sure either.

 

[billdog3484]

Ok, so you're only interjecting because you have a reading comprehension issue.



Got it.

im interjecting because you attempted to rip a poster and you ripped him using the same method of argument he was using. you still dont get it

 

[Brettlax3434]

I brought up a comparison regarding the INTERCEPTIONS. I'm sorry that you think ILB interceptions are not directly on point in a comparison to ILB interceptions. I'd help disabuse you of that notion if I could.

According to Jerod Mayo NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

J. Mayo has 11 Passes defended in his four season career. To go along with 1 interception.

P. Willis has 40 Passes defended in his five season Career. To go along with 5 interceptions.

Passes defended is my problem with Mayo. And as the stats show, he is not in Willis's league as a pass defender.

 

[randomk1]

According to Jerod Mayo NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

J. Mayo has 11 Passes defended in his four season career. To go along with 1 interception.

P. Willis has 40 Passes defended in his five season Career. To go along with 5 interceptions.

Passes defended is my problem with Mayo. And as the stats show, he is not in Willis's league as a pass defender.

This is news?

Willis is the best in the game right now.

 

[JackBauer]

Passes defended is my problem with Mayo. And as the stats show, he is not in Willis's league as a pass defender.

How many linebackers in the league are?

 

[Deus Irae]

Understood but let me come at it from a different angle. From 1996 to 1998, Bru was a part-timer. From 1999-2001, Bru played more ILB/OLB and actually had comparable numbers to Mayo's (except tackles). I guess my point is that the next 3-5 years will be very telling in how Mayo is compared to Bru in my eyes. The other angle is that Bru made all-pro in 04 and Mayo made all-pro last year. If you are comparing playmaking numbers to their all-pro years, it's not close. My point is that Mayo is an outstanding, young LB. Hes just not in the same class as Bru. Now, if you put Mayo in the middle of those 01-04 Ds, would his number be better? A little, but I think Mayo is still learning wheras Bru was a seasoned vet by then.

Mayo is Just 25, and has been very limited in 2 of his 4 seasons because of MCL issues. By the time Bruschi hit that 2001 season, he was 29 years old and had missed only 2 games in his career to that point, meaning he was already a wily veteran.

I don't expect Mayo to be able to do the heady things on the level that Bruschi could in 2001-2004.

Also, Bruschi made second team all pro twice, but never made first team. Mayo's already made first team all pro once. I loved Bruschi, but people here are really undervaluing Mayo, imo.

I don't think Mayo would start either. McCourty's rookie year over Asante and Gay in 04 but I'm not sure either.

Mayo v. Bruschi/Pfifer/Johnson

I can certainly see a Mayo start or at least a legitimate rotation with him involved in it.

As for McCourty, he hasn't shown that he can play man. I don't think he'd even be in play for a starting job. The closest CB would be Arrington, IMO, because he can at least avoid most big plays.

 

[Deus Irae]

im interjecting because you attempted to rip a poster and you ripped him using the same method of argument he was using. you still dont get it

I get it. You're assertion is just wrong, and is based upon your apparent inability to comprehend what was written.

 

[Brettlax3434]

This is news?

Willis is the best in the game right now.

I was responding to Deus who compared Mayo with Willis as having close statistics. The truth is they do not. And I agree with you.

 

[DarrylS]

We need more than 1. Willie disappointed on his early teams. Law and Milloy for were stealing Roberts money for a while. Surround them with good talent and coaching you suddenly you had a core of playmakers...and some of that talent came out of left field, like a LB they couldn't find a use for in Pittsburgh and a washed up SS from SD...

Context isn't an excuse, it's a possible reason.

This discussion and the need to defend Mayo borders onridiculous.. if he was not progressing and doing his job, BB would show him the door.

He is what he is a "very steady performer", who works very hard at his craft, studies for the next game.. he does not come across as a sexy player, words like consistent leader describe him better.

When we start measuring MLB's in passes defended or sacks, we lose what he is supposed to be doing.. in this defense he cannot take a lot of risks, and has to do what he is supposed to do.

A trip back in the memory machine indicates that last year he made a ton of tackles and the "yeah but" crowd was upset as he did not force more fumbles.. Willis is a very poor comparison, there are others that are more appropo.

 

[Deus Irae]

According to Jerod Mayo NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

J. Mayo has 11 Passes defended in his four season career. To go along with 1 interception.

P. Willis has 40 Passes defended in his five season Career. To go along with 5 interceptions.

Passes defended is my problem with Mayo. And as the stats show, he is not in Willis's league as a pass defender.

You wanted to go down the "enough" trail, yet now you're jumping back in? Make up your mind.

 

[mcsully]

What? Spikes played all 12 games and was suspended last year for that ADHD medication. This year, maybe b/c of his lack of off season workouts, he missed the 1st two games, came back in force and was good. He then got injured w. a MCL sprain.

You are right, Spikes was suspended for using drugs.. Then again, its against the rules and he broke it.. Very disappointing..

BTW out of 27 Regular games, he's only played in 19 (70%). When he came back from his suspension, he was out of shape and wasn't a factor in the playoff game, similar to this off-season.. Do you think he'll be in playoff shape come January? I'm not so sure.. I'm hoping he gets out there and gets some reps.. But again, I wouldn't depend on it.

I'd be more thrilled with Spikes being in the news for tackles than porn tapes and injuries (or the tweets).

At this point, I'm not sure what to make of Spikes. He's not a Bulter (bust), Brace (always injuried but still on the team) but more like a Chung.. A player I think that has potential but at this point we don't really know.. So if they chance is to upgrade the position, we should.. BB did it for years drafting TE's..

 

[Deus Irae]

I was responding to Deus who compared Mayo with Willis as having close statistics. The truth is they do not. And I agree with you.

That is incorrect, as has already been demonstrated.

 

[mcsully]

You wanted to go down the "enough" trail, yet now you're jumping back in? Make up your mind.

Well he brings up a great point.. People talked about INT's like they're gold.. The poster showed with stats, in pass coverage Willis is a better player..

But then again, Willis is a beast of a MLB.. Best in the league..

 

[Brettlax3434]

This discussion and the need to defend Mayo borders onridiculous.. if he was not progressing and doing his job, BB would show him the door.

He is what he is a "very steady performer", who works very hard at his craft, studies for the next game.. he does not come across as a sexy player, words like consistent leader describe him better.

When we start measuring MLB's in passes defended or sacks, we lose what he is supposed to be doing.. in this defense he cannot take a lot of risks, and has to do what he is supposed to do.

A trip back in the memory machine indicates that last year he made a ton of tackles and the "yeah but" crowd was upset as he did not force more fumbles.. Willis is a very poor comparison, there are others that are more appropo.

I agree that a comparison to Willis is not fair. Willis is the best in the league. I also never said that Mayo is not a good player, as I am happy to have him. I have simply been trying to point out that his game needs to grow as a coverage player. Which I believe it will. He has grown to be a better player year in and year out and im sure over time he will become a very effective pass defender. At this point in his career, I believe it is a weakness in his game. I believe BB would tell him the same. Saying a player has a weakness does not mean he is not a good player. I am just saying he has room to grow.

 

[randomk1]

Willis is a very poor comparison, there are others that are more appropo.

Who?

1123581321

 

[Brettlax3434]

You wanted to go down the "enough" trail, yet now you're jumping back in? Make up your mind.

I'm sorry, that wasn't what i meant. I meant that Mayo does not defend passes and make tackles in front of the marker often enough.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm sorry, that wasn't what i meant. I meant that Mayo does not defend passes and make tackles in front of the marker often enough.

Ok, so you were making a completely subjective point?

You've got no point about the interceptions, no point about forced fumbles, and are arguing "tackles in front of the marker" and sacks as if this particular defense and its two-gap principles should be yielding one-gap numbers for an ILB with a terrible surrounding cast.

As for passes defensed, that's a near-completely useless measure of defensive ability as a stand alone, and you surely know that.

And, again, to get back on track, the point here was that Mayo's interception numbers do not point out a coverage problem.

 

[mcsully]

I agree that a comparison to Willis is not fair. Willis is the best in the league. I also never said that Mayo is not a good player, as I am happy to have him. I have simply been trying to point out that his game needs to grow as a coverage player. Which I believe it will. He has grown to be a better player year in and year out and im sure over time he will become a very effective pass defender. At this point in his career, I believe it is a weakness in his game. I believe BB would tell him the same. Saying a player has a weakness does not mean he is not a good player. I am just saying he has room to grow.

Very fair.........

 

[DarrylS]

Who?

1123581321

Do some work here are the stats, remember Mayo missed a few games with his sprained MCL..

NFL Stats: by Player Position