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Condemn the Act - Encourage the Action

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Jul 28, 2011.

  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pat Buchanan joins Glen Beck and The Wall Street Journal in arguing that The Norway shooter "may have had a valid point" and that he "may be right."

    It's amazing to me.....they wring their hands and say, "Oh terrible tragedy, terrible tragedy. Only a madman would do such a thing," and then they go on to say "But, awful as this atrocity was, native-born and homegrown terrorism is not the macro-threat to the continent.

    That threat comes from a burgeoning Muslim presence in a Europe that has never known mass immigration, its failure to assimilate, its growing alienation, and its sometime sympathy for Islamic militants and terrorists.

    As for a climactic conflict between a once-Christian West and an Islamic world that is growing in numbers and advancing inexorably into Europe for the third time in 14 centuries, on this one, Breivik may be right.


    Pat Buchanan: Norwegian Right-Wing Terrorist ‘Breivik May Be Right’ | ThinkProgress

    All of this does nothing but serve to perk the ears of Crusading ideologists and Templar Wannabes and encourage them to order some fertilizer and pick up some hollow points in anticipation....and when the "war" doesn't come fast enough for them, they'll start it themselves.
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The right wing is terribly dangerous right now, perhaps as dangerous as it was in the 1950s. The Tea Party extremists are a threat to American democracy, and they are embraced by major media players like Buchanan and Beck. It's really disgusting. I think people like that represent the last stand of those who fear that white's will soon be a minority in this country. They are doing everything possible to disenfranchise people and disrupt the economy in the hope of provoking a backlash. They are truly dangerous, and the Republican leadership is too emasculated to stand up to them.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  3. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    Well said, and 100% accurate.

    But the spin-tacular backlash is winding up. Look alive.
  4. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    How are they a threat to American democracy? Are they trying to overturn the Constitution? Take voting rights away from law abiding citizens?

    Or is that simply how you describe any group of people who don't subscribe to the jealously-filled, hate-fueled rage and perversion of liberalism (a political platform which, I may add, absolutely nobody in the mainstream takes seriously)?
  5. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Anita Baker lol.
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They are trying to overturn the Constitution by disenfranchising people, blocking collective bargaining, opposing equal rights for minorities, not caring about the equal pursuit of liberty (their attacks on Muslims are examples of that), objecting to the welfare of the American people by protecting the wealthy, and cutting aid to poor kids and the needy. And, no, I'm not jealousy filled at all -- when I worked in technology and was in the highest tax bracket I was happy to pay the high taxes since it meant I was earning a lot. By the same facile reasoning by which you say I'm jealous, I can assume that you simply worship the white wealthy people in this country, that you're a sycophant, and that you are jealous that minorities are eating into your power. But, as I said, that's simplistic reasoning.

    And, by the way, whatever you think of liberalism, the fact remains that its whipped conservatives historically from the defeat of slavery, to the passage of union rights, to the laws protecting child workers, to the woman's right to vote, to the Civil Rights movement, to gay marriage, to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. The fact is that conservativism has historically been for losers and the conservative ideas keep dying in the dustbin of history unable to hold back the tide of change for long, though now with the attempt at fascism by the right we once again face a McCarthyesque threat.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  7. Real World

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    Never would I ever condone what that madman did. The guy is a sick **** that deserves to have his testicals removed without anesthesia. That being said, the muslim invasion of western europe is indeed a problem. The thing is, you don't ever use this mans horrible actions to even discuss that fact, because it may give a faint notion of justification to some.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    By and large, western European culture, like American culture, dominates the Muslim religion. If you knew any Muslims, you'd know many of them drink, like porn, go to Mosque irregularly, wear western style clothes, go to the movies, etc. As with some Christians, there are some Muslims with ridiculous views, but they are a minority. The other issues with Muslims are the same as the issues with other minorities: poverty. My guess is that you do not know a single Muslim, and your image of them is tainted by the racist screams of the right wing media.
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    You and I don't often agree on things but I think we're on the same page here......

    When media people or politicians make the statements that are being made it not only serves to justify the act but to encourage others to act similarily - and what's more, it also serves as a "warning" to Muslims. It's pretty much telling them, just like it's telling the homegrown terrorist types, that a war is going to be necessary sometime in the future - which is going to make them think that they, too, better be ready.

    It's like one group is the kindling and one group is the paper and Beck/WSJ/Buchanan and their ilk are just oh-so-eager to be the match.

    And when the fire's finally raging, they'll sit back and say, "Remember folks, you heard it here first. I predicted back in 2011 that this was going to happen and here it is."
  10. Real World

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    Wow, how ******* stupid do you feel? I employ muslims you chooch. :rolleyes:

    Do you not watch the news? Do you not see what's gone on in France & Germany with the muslim invasion, and their refusal to assimilate? Not each and everyone of course, but certainly a sizable chunk of that immigrant population. I deal in reality pal. I don't deal in politically correct, can't talk about that, BS jargon that you and some others do.
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    OT: The WSJ doesn't fit with Beck and Buchanan. It's actually a very good paper. I haven't read that op piece yet but will check it out tomorrow.
  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Got'cha. They have a platform you oppose politically, so you accuse them of trying to "overturn the Constitution.' :rolleyes:
    Boy that sure sounds an awful lot like a personal attack to me. Oh but wait, you're liberal, i.e. more equal than others.
    No, seriously. What color is the sky on your world? Chartreuse?
  13. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    To an extent I certainly agree, and what I'll say not as a defense, but more as my idea on what they (Beck/Buchanan/etc) might be thinking, is that they see a very serious problem. They truly see a grave issue here with respect to what they say. I just don't think it's wise to segway from this incident, to that issue, no matter how serious you think it may be. Again that is me. Some others might feel that not discussing, or dealing with the issue prior, is why something like this has/might happen(ed). To that I would say hoey. No one, no matter what, should ever go out and cold bloodedly murder innocent people. If someone (heaven forbid) went out and slaughtered people over illegal immigrants, it wouldn't make me say we need Amnesty, nor would it make me say "see we need to deport these people". It would make me say that there are some crazy ***** on this planet, that need to have their testicles removed with plyers. Here, regardless of where you stand on the crux of the man's motive, you simply shouldn't discuss it. So it's not that those pundits had a bad point, it's that they used very bad judgement in using this horrible tragedy as a means to discuss it. It's wrong to do imo.
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've lived in Paris and have spent time in the Muslim area. My niece (Jewish) is married to a Muslim in Europe. Yes, there are radical elements, and they're the ones who make the news. The boring ones don't make the news. Didn't you realize that? There are around 3 million Muslims in France, and I think it's a very small percentage who are refusing to assimilate. Assimilation takes several generations, and Europe's Muslim population is only a generation old or so for the most part.
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Europe is turning into Eurabia as we speak. The muslims are imposing sharia law and already taking over area of the countries they are invading.


    [​IMG]


    Why this clown and his followers are sent back to the serers they emigrated from is a mystery. Note they are quite explicit about the endgame just as the National Socialist were the Libs just wanted tolerance and peace in out time .....we all know how that worked out.


    Funny part is that since I don't drink or smoke I could live easily with these rules whereas libs especially gay people and Jews would/will be killed by these people when they become the majority.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2011
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This sort of reads like the same paranoia that was once directed at Jews and Roman Catholics. I think the right-wing bigots are sowing paranoia. There is no Sharia law anywhere in Europe.
  17. patsfan13

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    Go have a gay block party with beer and a dj in an area where these signs are posted and get back to us....

    Of course there are the area around Paris where they had the riots and the police will no longer go, the list goes on.

    People called Churchill paranoid for believing that Hitler meant what he said.

    I will also bet that no 'moderate' mulsims will condemn this sort of vigalante sharia enforcement.
  18. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    That's got to be the first time in about 10 years that the words "Buchanan" and "major media player" appeared in the same sentence.

    Really? Sounds scary.
  19. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    Abolitionists were fundamentalist Christians, bub.

    Check out Wilberforce.

    Again. The churches.

    What was that group? The Southern Christian Leadership Conference? When the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964 which party had a higher percentage of members vote for the act?

    Where would liberals be without McCarthy?
  20. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What signs??

    The same thing applies in many parts of America where the American Christian Taliban is trying to take control of every action and every decision that you make.
  21. PatsFanInVa

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    For all you "They had it coming" fans, with your links to random fantasy sites insisting that Norway's Labor Party is the Nazis (which I don't understand, since Obama is Hitler and he's from Kenya not Norway...)

    [​IMG]

    Evidently, this is the face of evil.

    Please get real people.

    This shooter happened to be an Islamophobic self-described holy warrior (if you're not familiar with the Knights Templar, get a goddam clue). It's exactly like a guy espousing a violent view of Islam committing murders in Islam's name.

    You can say Norway had it coming because not enough Norwegians shoot each other. You can say kids at a summer camp must be Hitler Youth. You can say the murderer is right -- and most chillingly, I have seen all these arguments from our local rightie apologists here.

    These acts are not okay. Your apologetics are really, really showing your buttocks here.

    You don't think the "other guy" can make arguments in favor of Al Qaeda's viewpoint on 9/12/01? Hitting the economic center of the world's remaining economic superpower... hitting the military nerve center of the world's foremost military power... when much of the world viewed the U.S. as imperialist and plenty of worse adjectives?

    But then look at the film, and what people did to the innocents. Sure, grown men and women in that case, but innocents.

    This crap I'm reading on this board about how Norway had it coming because they're too liberal, how the guy was right that allllll of Europe would soon have the wrong idea of supernatural characters because of people of other ethnicity and religion moving in... the spectre of a giant minaret on top of the eifel tower or whatever... all these idiotic justifications/areas of agreement with the shooter make very little sense.

    Do you condemn this Christian, far-right terrorist, or don't you -- to coin a phrase.

    "What I find most offensive is that the "good Christians" continue to defend him" (to coin another.)

    Do you guys really not see how utterly parallel these ideological mirror-images are?

    PFnV
  22. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What does this response have to do with what I posted? Of course, there have always been wonderful progressive churches. I never meant to imply that all religion is right wing, which you somehow apparently took from what I wrote.

    As far as the Civil Rights Act goes, your argument is the same crappy one used by some conservatives who say, "But MLK was a Republican" (while out of the other side of their mouth they call him a Communist). Of course, there was a slightly higher percentage of Republicans supporting the CRA because the big news of the CRA was that JFK/LBJ chose to accept a split in their own party and break with the Dixiecrats, who Reagan and the right wing quickly lapped up. Too bad Boehner doesn't have the guts to break with th extremists in his party.

    Liberals had two great periods: the 1930s and the 1960s, where a lot of liberal initiatives were implemented. During the McCarthy era liberalism was not strong.
  23. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The impoverished areas of Paris are no different than the impoverished areas here -- and I never heard of an area of Paris where the police will not go. I think there are parts of the US where a gay block party with beer and a dj won't go over well. The beliefs you have about Muslims had parallels at various points in our history to Roman Catholics, Jews, Irish, Italians, Hispanics, Blacks, and others. But, what I find so peculiar is that at the same time as you fear otherness, you oppose investing more in education and other programs to help culturally assimilate new immigrants. How in the world do you expect to win this battle?
  24. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    [​IMG]
  25. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    Only if that means we can blame it on Palin.

    But seriously, I don't know about anyone else, but I think this guy is nuts and any fellow-travelers are similarly nuts and dangerous. Not sure if people who are concerned about the future of Europe can all be lumped into that group.
  26. Harry Boy

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    The problem is growing, the liberals brain won't let them see it.
  27. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    Atlas des Zones urbaines sensibles (Zus)

    I think the banlieues are a disgrace. They certainly do not represent any attempt to assimilate the people who inhabit them.

    I haven't seen anyone in the U.S. write a book like this:

    Amazon.com: Dans L'enfer Des Tournantes (French Edition) (9782070429905): Samira Bellil: Books

    We don't assimilate immigrants anymore, we accommodate them.

    What battle?
  28. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Just an observation - I grew up in a Chicago neighborhood where all of the grandma's spoke only Polish or Italian. Their children, the parent's of my friends, spoke excellent Polish or Italian and broken English. Most of them could not read English. But their grandchildren, my friends, spoke excellent English and understood, but seldom spoke barely read, Polish or Italian. Their children speak, read and understand only English.

    It takes awhile. Generations, as Patters says.

    And yes, some people may never get out of it.....I think every large city has a "Chinatown," don't they? It's not just a place to get good General Tso Chicken, either....it's a community, it's a way of life, and it's virtually seld contained. A good portion of the residents speak only Chinese. Their children go to Chinese school. Or how about an almost strictly Orthodox Jewish area? There are small pockets in New York and New Jersey where there are signs outside the neighborhood requesting that women keep their limbs covered in deference to Orthodox beliefs. Their children go to a yeshiva - not to a public school. They do not leave their community very often - and usually only with trepidation. Ditto the Amish.

    You've got to give people time....and some sort of acceptance. How easy can it be to assimilate when half the media is yelling, "off with their heads?" Many of today's immigrants, like yesterday's immigrants, come from war torn areas - they are displaced, they are poor and they are fearful. It's up to the citizens of their new country to show them what America really is.

    You can only ever hope get back from people what you put into them.
  29. JackBauer

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    It's a very good paper outside of the editorial page, indeed.
  30. The Brandon Five

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    Who is yelling "off with their heads"?

    I think we need more legal immigration, not less. The problem I have is not with people who come here and maintain their own cultural identity and practices. I have an issue with people who move to a modern, secular, Western state and want to change it to the place that they just fled, or those that actually still have allegiance to another country (see the recent crowd in LA cheering for the Mexican team or Mexican flags at rallies against immigration restrictions). I think that immigrants owe their host a certain level of gratitude and allegiance and respect for the values and institutions that created the society that attracted them in the first place.

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