Competition Is Stiff For Final 5 Roster Spots

[Jimke]

Much can change in the next three months. More free agents are likely, but the roster is fine as of now, now that we have added a backup linebacker. For example, I don't expect Green-Ellis to make the Game Two 53-man roster. I also still hope for a veteran #3 quarterback. To me, the weakest players on my current guess at a roster are Green-Ellis and Hoyer/Gutierrez.

MG’s ROSTER AS OF MAY 27

THE FINAL THREE ROSTER SPOTS (3) actually there could be 0-5 roster spots here

These roster positions also could be used for other positions or for developmental players.
Also, there could be one or two more of these “final roster spots” if we don’t carry a 3rd QB and/or a 5th RB.

There could be one less roster spot available if we choose to carry seven defensive linemen and/or a 10th offensive lineman. There would only be one spot available for special teamers if we carried both seven DL’s and ten OL’s. Finally, all spots could be gone of we carry 7 DL's, 10 OL's and Tate is ready for Game 1.

ST/WR (1) Aiken/Slater/Ventrone
ST/LB (1) Ciurciu/Redd/Alexander
ST/DB (1) Williams/Spann/Richardson

OFFENSE (24)
QB (3) Brady, O'Connell, Hoyer/Gutierrez
RB (5) Taylor, Faulk, Morris, Maroney, BJGE
WR (4) Moss, Welker, Galloway, Lewis
TE (3) Watson, Baker, Smith
OT (4) Light, Kaczur, LeVoir, Vollmer
OG/C (5) Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Johnson/Hochstein, Ohrenberger

DEFENSE (23)
DL (6) Wilfork, Seymour, Warren, Wright, Brace, Green/Smith
OLB (4) Thomas, Crable, Banta-Cain, Woods
ILB (4) Mayo, Bruschi, Guyton, Lenon
CB (5) Butler, Bodden, Springs, Wheatley, Wilhite
S (4) Meriweather, Sanders, Chung, McGowan

SPECIALISTS (3)
K (1) Gostkowski
P (1) Hanson
LS (1) Hodel/Ingram

STARTING THE SEASON ON THE PUP LIST (1)
WR (1) Tate

STARTING THE SEASON ON IR (1)
LB (1) McKenzie

According to Mike Reiss's latest post, Lenon is a good special teams

player. He could be a backup at MLB plus fill a ST spot.

 

[farn]

ST/WR (1) Aiken/Slater/Ventrone
ST/LB (1) Ciurciu/Redd/Alexander
ST/DB (1) Williams/Spann/Richardson

I like Aiken - actually be quite surprised if he didn't make it. I also see Redd, Williams, and Slater on the team... I see Green-Ellis as the odd man out on your roster.

 

[Fencer]

As far as I checked, special teams is still a bit less than a third of the plays and just as important,

I doubt many players ever made a roster for FG/PAT plays other than K/LS/maybe holder.

Kickoffs and punts are well under 1/3 of total plays.

 

[spacecrime]

I doubt many players ever made a roster for FG/PAT plays other than K/LS/maybe holder.

Kickoffs and punts are well under 1/3 of total plays.

There are eight basic ST plays, right? KO, KO return, punt, punt return, PAT attempt and defend, and FG attempt and defend? Oh, and two-point conversion? Is that an offensive play or a ST play.

Several Pats have made the team over the years as STers. Some, like David Givens, go on to be great in their skill position. Once they get on the 45-man roster week in and week out, the team starts to incorporate them into some plays. But they make the 53 originally as STers.

I would not dismiss ST plays so cavalierly.

And I'll be if you count up all the ST plays you will find they really are not well under a 1/3 by all that much.

 

[PYPER]

Great list mgteich,

My thoughts:

1) We're too deep to carry 3 QB's. Guiterrez or Hoyer will be put on the PS. Nor do I see the team bringing in a vet. I think BB likes being able to use that roster spot for depth in other areas.

2) I expect BJGE to start the year on the PS.

3) Aiken makes the team as the #5 WR and possibly beats out Lewis for #4.

4) With only 2 QB's and BJGE on the PS that will open up two spots. I expect those to be filled by keeping one of the following:
Smith - DL
Alexander - ST/LB
Edelman - ST/WR (Could officially be called QB2 with O'connell listed as emergency QB)

5) Ciurciu and Williams make the team. Slater, Ventrone, Redd, Richardson, and Spann are destined to the PS or unemployment line. Likewise, if Edelman doesn't stick he'll end up on the PS.

 

[patsfan13]

MG’s ROSTER AS OF MAY 27

could be used for other positions or for developmental players.
Also, there could be one or two more of these “final roster spots” if we don’t carry a 3rd QB and/or a 5th RB.

There could be one less roster spot available if we choose to carry seven defensive linemen and/or a 10th offensive lineman. There would only be one spot available for special teamers if we carried both seven DL’s and ten OL’s. Finally, all spots could be gone of we carry 7 DL's, 10 OL's and Tate is ready for Game 1.

ST/WR (1) Aiken/Slater/Ventrone
ST/LB (1) Ciurciu/Redd/Alexander
ST/DB (1) Williams/Spann/Richardson

OFFENSE (24)
QB (3) Brady, O'Connell, Hoyer/Gutierrez

Tried to cut Gut last year, expect Hoyer to the PS to see if he can develop. Comfortable with KOC as the backup

RB (5) Taylor, Faulk, Morris, Maroney, BJGE

Happy to go into the season with this group

WR (4) Moss, Welker, Galloway, Lewis

IMO we carry 1 more WR and see Lewis being more a contributor on ST than at WR, Slater here, unless Tate is physically ready, though I see him on IR learning the system for next year.

TE (3) Watson, Baker, Smith

Agree here Thomas gets squeezed out

OT (4) Light, Kaczur, LeVoir, Vollmer

No quibbles here

OG/C (5) Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Johnson/Hochstein, Ohrenberger

Don't know enough about Johnson to comment here. Hoch has been very versatile, tough to unseat.

DEFENSE (23)
DL (6) Wilfork, Seymour, Warren, Wright, Brace, Green/Smith

I am guessing we keep 7 DL, love the flexibility here

OLB (4) Thomas, Crable, Banta-Cain, Woods

I see Redd being on the roster, or maybe moving inside? Definitly on the roster though

ILB (4) Mayo, Bruschi, Guyton, Lenon

Yup

CB (5) Butler, Bodden, Springs, Wheatley, Wilhite

Could be the best group we've had at the position. Good thing since we always seem to get banged up here

S (4) Meriweather, Sanders, Chung, McGowan

I see Williams competing with McGowan here

SPECIALISTS (3)
K (1) Gostkowski
P (1) Hanson
LS (1) Hodel/Ingram

Are we bringing in another punter for camp?

STARTING THE SEASON ON THE PUP LIST (1)
WR (1) Tate

Rookies seem to have a hard time contributing here due to the system. I see the IR for Tate and a spot on the roster next year.

STARTING THE SEASON ON IR (1)
LB (1) McKenzie

Damn shame I really like this kid's story. I hope he will be a contributor next year.


If we don't have a lot of guys going on IR this will be the best roster we have seen here. IF IF Woods/Crable/Guyton are capable this will be a great D, the O looks almost unatoppable, I start drooling when I think of Galloway lining up opposite Moss with Welker in the slot.

Please let us stay healthy this year....

 

[Fencer]

There are eight basic ST plays, right? KO, KO return, punt, punt return, PAT attempt and defend, and FG attempt and defend? Oh, and two-point conversion? Is that an offensive play or a ST play.

Several Pats have made the team over the years as STers. Some, like David Givens, go on to be great in their skill position. Once they get on the 45-man roster week in and week out, the team starts to incorporate them into some plays. But they make the 53 originally as STers.

I would not dismiss ST plays so cavalierly.

And I'll be if you count up all the ST plays you will find they really are not well under a 1/3 by all that much.

No argument re the average importance of plays on which balls get kicked to the other team.

No argument re the importance of FG plays, for that matter. But I can think of exactly one important FG play a Patriot has ever made other than a kicker, holder, long snapper, or starter/solid rotation player. (Antawn Harris took the lateral -- legal or otherwise -- from Troy Brown vs. Pitt.)

And of course a 2-pt conversion is a regular offensive play. More precisely, it is executed by regular offensive personnel, and probably taken from the regular situational playbook. (When we all knew Faulk would get a direct snap vs. Carolina for the conversion if the Pats got a TD, it wasn't from seeing other 2-pt conversion plays before. It was from seeing 3rd down plays at similar yardage.)

 

[Fencer]

I think it's 7 DL. There are 8 guys who seemingly deserve to make the roster, but only 2 who are currently reliable bets to contribute a season from now. (Warren and Wright.) So keeping a bunch seems to make sense ...

 

[mgteich]

3,5) My choices are listed first, so my choices in each group are the the same as yours: Aiken, Ciurciu and Williams.

2,4) My choice of those you list in Item 4 is definitely LeKevin Smith who I would need to free up a roster spot to keep. I would give him BJGE's spot. BJGE is next to useless. I am fine with seven defensive lineman, although I am not sure that Belichick is. However, as of now, I agree that Smith is one of the 53 best players we have.

1) PLAYER 53
If you don't keep the 3rd QB, you have an additional roster spot, useful even before Game 1 to allow us to add a player. I don't think that the roster spot could be better used than keeping Hoyer, although I would like to see us sign a fullback. I do have a feeling that Tate might be ready to take this roster spot. Tate could be the kick returner we need, although I'm fine with Maroney in that role.

5) I agree with your unemployment/PS line, although I would add Alexander, and definitely include Edleman.

Great list mgteich,

My thoughts:

1) We're too deep to carry 3 QB's. Guiterrez or Hoyer will be put on the PS. Nor do I see the team bringing in a vet. I think BB likes being able to use that roster spot for depth in other areas.

2) I expect BJGE to start the year on the PS.

3) Aiken makes the team as the #5 WR and possibly beats out Lewis for #4.

4) With only 2 QB's and BJGE on the PS that will open up two spots. I expect those to be filled by keeping one of the following:
Smith - DL
Alexander - ST/LB
Edelman - ST/WR (Could officially be called QB2 with O'connell listed as emergency QB)

5) Ciurciu and Williams make the team. Slater, Ventrone, Redd, Richardson, and Spann are destined to the PS or unemployment line. Likewise, if Edelman doesn't stick he'll end up on the PS.

 

[mgteich]

As I indicated, I agree with all your choices/additions/changes. Since you freed up one extra spot, I decided that this year we might keep 10 offensive lineman, with Hochstein as the 10th since he is so position-flexible. I have taken out the alternatives at each of the positions.

This is the best patriot roster that I have ever seen, and Belichick is still working on improvements through trades or free agency.

MG’s ROSTER AS OF MAY 28

OFFENSE (23)
QB (2) Brady, O'Connell
RB (4) Taylor, Faulk, Morris, Maroney
WR (4) Moss, Welker, Galloway, Lewis
TE (3) Watson, Baker, Smith
OT (4) Light, Kaczur, LeVoir, Vollmer
OG (4) Mankins, Neal, Johnson, Ohrenberger
C (2) Koppen, Hochstein

DEFENSE (24)
DL (7) Wilfork, Seymour, Warren, Wright, Brace, Green, Smith
OLB (4) Thomas, Crable, Banta-Cain, Woods
ILB (4) Mayo, Bruschi, Guyton, Lenon
CB (5) Butler, Bodden, Springs, Wheatley, Wilhite
S (4) Meriweather, Sanders, Chung, McGowan

SPECIALISTS (6)
K (1) Gostkowski
P (1) Hanson
LS (1) Hodel
ST/WR (1) Aiken
ST/LB (1) Ciurciu
ST/DB (1) Williams

STARTING THE SEASON ON THE PUP LIST (1)
WR (1) Tate

STARTING THE SEASON ON IR (1)
LB (1) McKenzie

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

Every year at least one UDFA makes the 53 and contributes. A few made it last year.

I think this year is an exaggerated form of Bill's MO: sign cheap vets and have them compete with rookies. Let the best men win. Usually non-established vets are cut in favor of promising rookies. This Paris Lenon guy better be prepared to battle Antonio Appleby. Another competition is at Black Irish Safety: McGowan vs. McClinton.

It seems to me that veterans get the benefit of doubt from fans. At least on defense they do, but they do not seem to make the team more often than rookies. The only new vet fans are eager to demote is Lewis. A lot of names are missing from these discussions IMO.

BTW, I'm rooting for Appleby. I have been since seeing him around the ball so much on Clint Sintim's youtube videos. I also think some of the late OL/DL draftees will shake things up. And Edelmania! lol ends September 1st. Don't get too attached. Haha!

 

[mgteich]

We need posters to root for, post about and debate about the glories of our 6th rounders, 7th rounders and UDFA's. As you say, one or more might even make the team, especially if we have lots of injuries.

Personally, I am one of those whose bias is toward those players who have played in the NFL. Yes, I am biased in favor of someone who had 120 tackles and was a top special teamer last year (Lenon) over those who 32 team passed on 7 times, and who has never played in the NFL. Yes, I am also biased in favor of players who have been top special teamers for seven years (Aiken and Ciurciu) over UDFA's.

But, I understand that you have lots of company. My binky is a 6th round deep snapper.

Every year at least one UDFA makes the 53 and contributes. A few made it last year.

I think this year is an exaggerated form of Bill's MO: sign cheap vets and have them compete with rookies. Let the best men win. Usually non-established vets are cut in favor of promising rookies. This Paris Lenon guy better be prepared to battle Antonio Appleby. Another competition is at Black Irish Safety: McGowan vs. McClinton.

It seems to me that veterans get the benefit of doubt from fans. At least on defense they do, but they do not seem to make the team more often than rookies. The only new vet fans are eager to demote is Lewis. A lot of names are missing from these discussions IMO.

BTW, I'm rooting for Appleby. I have been since seeing him around the ball so much on Clint Sintim's youtube videos. I also think some of the late OL/DL draftees will shake things up. And Edelmania! lol ends September 1st. Don't get too attached. Haha!

 

[PatsCanDoIt]

We need posters to root for, post about and debate about the glories of our 6th rounders, 7th rounders and UDFA's. As you say, one or more might even make the team, especially if we have lots of injuries.

Personally, I am one of those whose bias is toward those players who have played in the NFL. Yes, I am biased in favor of someone who had 120 tackles and was a top special teamer last year (Lenon) over those who 32 team passed on 7 times, and who has never played in the NFL. Yes, I am also biased in favor of players who have been top special teamers for seven years (Aiken and Ciurciu) over UDFA's.

But, I understand that you have lots of company. My binky is a 6th round deep snapper.

Tenure doesn't mean much to me. I just read a two part article about Seahawk Brian Russell. A journeyman safety for eight seasons who starts and sucks at playing football, according to the author.

I want Appleby to earn it though. He has the measurables. If he can force lesser athletes out with his skill we have a better team here.

 

[efin98]

We need posters to root for, post about and debate about the glories of our 6th rounders, 7th rounders and UDFA's. As you say, one or more might even make the team, especially if we have lots of injuries.

Personally, I am one of those whose bias is toward those players who have played in the NFL. Yes, I am biased in favor of someone who had 120 tackles and was a top special teamer last year (Lenon) over those who 32 team passed on 7 times, and who has never played in the NFL. Yes, I am also biased in favor of players who have been top special teamers for seven years (Aiken and Ciurciu) over UDFA's.

The classic potential vs. performance always skews in favor of those who have shown they can do it on the field rather than those who may do it.

If Lennon wasn't on the Lions last year I doubt so many would be against his signing...I think they would be happy that they added depth with someone who is a veteran and who has shown to be a top tackler which should bode well for them in an area that they had trouble in last year on special teams- tackling.

But, I understand that you have lots of company. My binky is a 6th round deep snapper.

I'm with you here...I don't want to think of his pick as a luxury pick that they could afford to waste, I want him to make the team over the veteran.

 

[Pats726]

It's all about learning curves....and some players rise fast...others take a bit longer. SOmetime it's not about making the 53 this year...but a year on the PSquad and then making the team. Vets also fall fast so it's the reverse sort of situation...have them on teh team before they decline fast...and wven there..some have sudden slopes others very gradual. ALL fans can have their faves...I just want to see some tough competition and a really strong team in the end...veterans and rookies...whoever.

 

[Synovia]

It seems to me that veterans get the benefit of doubt from fans. At least on defense they do, but they do not seem to make the team more often than rookies.

I'm not so sure about that. Bellichick has brought in some pretty terrible vets over the last couple of years, and given them playing time, despite rumors that the young guys were comping along well.


Deltha O'neil types.

 

[mgteich]

Now this is funny. O'Neal got playing time because the team judged that he was better at the time than the young guys, despite any rumors the contrary.

We brought in four defensive backs last year. Bryant and Webster were injured early. Lew Sanders played well. O'Neal was probably third after Bryant and Webster. IMHO, O'Neal did not get playing time in ANY game, while Belichick kept better young players on the bench. O'Neal was much better than Spann, Ventrone, Richardson, Wilhite, and Slater. He was also better than Wheatley at the beginning of the season. It sux when two of your top three corners get injured before the season even starts.

This year, we've brought in Bodden, Springs and Butler. Wheatley and Wilhite have a year of experience. Belichick is so confident with this group of five that he let Hobbs go for almost nothing. He did not even keep Hobbs as an insurance backup, choosing to rely on Spann and Richardson for that role.

I'm not so sure about that. Bellichick has brought in some pretty terrible vets over the last couple of years, and given them playing time, despite rumors that the young guys were comping along well.


Deltha O'neil types.

 

[Spiral]

At RT, I wouldn't write off O'Callaghan. I think Kaczur is vulnerable, partly due to his dreadful foot speed, and partly due to his cap number ($2.4M cap number, $1.8M cap savings if traded/released). I think if Levoir, O'C, and Vollmer show that they can handle the RT / swing tackle positions, Kaczur might be wearing a different uniform next fall.

 

[patchick]

Really encouraging how many spots have strong competition. A couple of thoughts...

On RBs: last year when they signed Jordan, much of the board assumed that one of Jordan, Morris & Maroney would be cut because 5 RBs was obviously too many. Now the majority seems to assume BJGE is a lock as #5. Curious! If everybody else starts the year healthy, BenJarvus looks like a guaranteed weekly inactive with limited upside. He's a solid guy, I just don't see room for him on a roster like this.

On Gutierrez: he actually has two accrued seasons, which should make him INeligible for the practice squad. But there's some fuzziness in cases of multiple accrued seasons without hitting the 9-gameday-roster cutoff. After the likes of JT O'Sullivan and Antwain Spann, I officially don't understand the PS rules.

 

[Synovia]

Now this is funny. O'Neal got playing time because the team judged that he was better at the time than the young guys, despite any rumors the contrary.

And when he was replaced with the young guy, there was a huge uptick in performance. Thats my point: sometimes the team judges that the 'vet' is better simply because hes a vet. There's a history of vets not being replaced until there's a HUGE gap in ability on this team.