Comparison post: Giants roster v. Patriots roster

[Deus Irae]

I agree with DI's take, but I'm not sure that I'd evaluate it like that. I'd look at it more like:

Patriots OL vs. Giants DL (pass): wash
Patriots RB/OL vs. Giants DL (run): adv. Patriots
Giants OL vs. Patriots DL (pass): wash
Giants OL vs. Patriots DL (run): adv. Patriots
Patriots QB/WR vs. Giants secondary: Patriots by a mile
Giants QB/WR vs. Patriots secondary: Giants by a mile
Patriots QB/TE vs. Giants LB/S: Patriots by a mile
Giants QB/TE vs. Patriots LB/S: Adv. Giants
Patriots kick/punt coverage vs. Giants kick/punt return: wash
Giants kick/punt coverage vs. Patriots kick/punt return: wash
Coach: adv. Patriots

All of that said, I definitely wouldn't weight all of these points equally, but I do believe that the Patriots overall have a real and fairly compelling advantage in this game. Mostly because I don't think the Giants' pass rush has the huge advantage over the Pats' pass protection that everyone is saying it does. The Pats' pass protection has been great.

I figure to look at the more direct matchups (OL v. DL, etc...) in other threads. Actually, it would be great if we could get various people writing the O.P.s for those threads, because I don't know if I'll be around enough to get to them all in time. I may end up dealing with an issue that will require me to be somewhere without computers for a while eek: ).

 

[JackBauer]

OL
- Giants although I like the Pats future at tackle better.

Yeah.....no.

The Patriots are literally better at every spot on the OL.

 

[makoute]

I figure it's time to get more into the nuts and bolts of the game, and I thought I'd ease into it by starting with the least valid comparisons of all: Position group by position group. So, without further ado, I'll make it quick and uncluttered so that the Giants posters can argue with a clean slate:

QB
- Patriots by a mile

RB
- Patriots

OL
- Patriots

TE
- Patriots by a mile

WR
- Giants by a mile

DL
- Giants v. pass, Patriots v. run, Giants overall in this specific matchup

LB
- Patriots

DB
- Giants

K
- Patriots

P
- Patriots

Returns
- Even (Giants edge on KRs, Patriots edge on PRs)




Fire away.......

I think kickers might be more even.

 

[everlong]

You credit the Giants with playing through injuries, but you didn't note that BJGE spent much of the season dealing with a toe injury and that Woodhead was concussed early on and took quite a while to get over that.

As for Ridley, why can't he be factored in? He's put up better YPA numbers than any runner for either team. Fumbles aside, he may be the 'best' runner in the game (Super Bowl) this year.

I did factor in BJGE being injured but his numbers in the playoffs are marginal at best where as Bradshaw and Jacobs have picked it up. BJGE is a reliable back but that's about it. I'm glad he's on the roster but I really hope Ridley loses his fumble-itis and Vereen develops and stays healthy.

I'm not factoring in Ridley because even if he dresses I don't think he'll get the ball. He ran 3/11 vs the Giants in the first meeting and their team speed will keep him from getting to the edge. I think Benny's one cut and go running off the B Gap is the way they'll go or draws to Woodhead. The Giants will be hacking at Ridley trying to get that ball loose every time.

 

[Catch42]

Yeah.....no.

The Patriots are literally better at every spot on the OL.

Probably just differ on that. Deihl has rounded back into form at LT, the LG experiment in the season failed. Booth looks horrible but luckily plays better than he looks. Those two have improved the running game to the left. They are a big reason for the improvement in the YPC. Baas is a better Center. Snee is a probowl guard. Kmac is an shell of himself at RT and needs to be replaced as soon as possible.

 

[Deus Irae]

I did factor in BJGE being injured but his numbers in the playoffs are marginal at best where as Bradshaw and Jacobs have picked it up. BJGE is a reliable back but that's about it. I'm glad he's on the roster but I really hope Ridley loses his fumble-itis and Vereen develops and stays healthy.

I'm not factoring in Ridley because even if he dresses I don't think he'll get the ball. He ran 3/11 vs the Giants in the first meeting and their team speed will keep him from getting to the edge. I think Benny's one cut and go running off the B Gap is the way they'll go or draws to Woodhead. The Giants will be hacking at Ridley trying to get that ball loose every time.

Your comment on BJGE is unfair, IMO, as his numbers were poor in the Denver game, but were very solid against the much better Ravens defense (and do we really care about any running numbers from that Broncos game?). On the other hand, Bradshaw ran well against the lesser defenses (GB, ATL), but was comfortably under 4.0 against the 49ers.

As for Ridley, I expect he'll play and get some run. He expects to play, anyway.

 

[JackBauer]

Probably just differ on that. Deihl has rounded back into form at LT, the LG experiment in the season failed. Booth looks horrible but luckily plays better than he looks. Those two have improved the running game to the left. They are a big reason for the improvement in the YPC. Baas is a better Center. Snee is a probowl guard. Kmac is an shell of himself at RT and needs to be replaced as soon as possible.

So, even if I concede that Baas is better than Connolly and Snee is better than Waters, Light is still better than Diehl, Mankins is much better than Booth, and either Vollmer or Solder are better than McKenzie.

So Patriots are better at three spots on the line, including both tackle spots. Not only that but our 3rd tackle is better than your starting RT.

 

[Ivan]

So, even if I concede that Baas is better than Connolly and Snee is better than Waters, Light is still better than Diehl, Mankins is much better than Booth, and either Vollmer or Solder are better than McKenzie.

So Patriots are better at three spots on the line, including both tackle spots. Not only that but our 3rd tackle is better than your starting RT.

You're more generous than I am, I wouldn't give him Snee over Waters or Mankins. The Patriots have better players at both OT and OG spots and as you said their 3rd OT is better than the Giants RT.

 

[Kid~Brady]

I'll take a stab at it

QB
- Patriots

RB
- Giants

OL
- Giants although I like the Pats future at tackle better.
TE
- Patriots by a mile. That is true even if Gronk can only play half the game. The Giants are getting by with Ballard, but he is injured as well.

WR
- Giants by a mile

DL
- Giants by a mile

LB
- Patriots

DB
- Giants

K
- Patriots

P
- Patriots but it's close

Returns
- Patriots. The Giants have been trying to find a decent returner all season.

That stuff your smoking in in New York must be good.

 

[Catch42]

Is that the third tackle they are replacing because he can't handle a bull rush or the tackle playing his first game in a couple months after breaking his jaw?

I agree with your other points though. I see it as a push at this point and the Patriot's passing attack does more to help the OL than the Giants does. So the Patriots OL will probably come out of the game playing the better game.

 

[Ivan]

Is that the third tackle they are replacing because he can't handle a bull rush or the tackle playing his first game in a couple months after breaking his jaw?

I agree with your other points though. I see it as a push at this point and the Patriot's passing attack does more to help the OL than the Giants does. So the Patriots OL will probably come out of the game playing the better game.

Want to go that route?

No problem, Vollmer is actually the starter and has been out with a foot problem, however his replacement is so good they were able to play the Ravens and Broncos without him. But if you want to rule out the effectiveness of players with foot injuries then by all means take Bradshaw out as well, no way he could help after having foot injury............

 

[Catch42]

Want to go that route?

No problem, Vollmer is actually the starter and has been out with a foot problem, however his replacement is so good they were able to play the Ravens and Broncos without him. But if you want to rule out the effectiveness of players with foot injuries then by all means take Bradshaw out as well, no way he could help after having foot injury............

exactly the same..... except Bradshaw has been playing the entire playoffs.

I wanted Nate in the Draft last year. I think he has the potential to be great. I probably wouldn't trust him to protect Eli from Tuck, JPP, or Kiwi in the biggest game of the season. I'm stuck with KMAC at RT so I'm just glad Those guys don't play for the Pats.

 

[Deus Irae]

Probably just differ on that. Deihl has rounded back into form at LT, the LG experiment in the season failed. Booth looks horrible but luckily plays better than he looks. Those two have improved the running game to the left. They are a big reason for the improvement in the YPC. Baas is a better Center. Snee is a probowl guard. Kmac is an shell of himself at RT and needs to be replaced as soon as possible.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 OFFENSIVE LINES

 

[TheComeback]

I'll take a stab at it

QB
- Patriots

RB
- Giants

OL
- Giants although I like the Pats future at tackle better.

TE
- Patriots by a mile. That is true even if Gronk can only play half the game. The Giants are getting by with Ballard, but he is injured as well.

WR
- Giants by a mile

DL
- Giants by a mile

LB
- Patriots

DB
- Giants

K
- Patriots

P
- Patriots but it's close

Returns
- Patriots. The Giants have been trying to find a decent returner all season.

No way the Giants have a better OL than the Patriots. It's not even close. The Giants have a patchwork OL right now. Meanwhile, the Patriots have starting-caliber linemen sitting on the bench. There's really no argument at all when it comes to OL.

Agree with the rest of the post.

 

[CityOfChampions]

I agree with OP.

 

[TheComeback]

So, even if I concede that Baas is better than Connolly and Snee is better than Waters, Light is still better than Diehl, Mankins is much better than Booth, and either Vollmer or Solder are better than McKenzie.

So Patriots are better at three spots on the line, including both tackle spots. Not only that but our 3rd tackle is better than your starting RT.

Don't concede any of those points. Snee is the only one worthy of debate, and he's not having his best season. He may or may not be better than Waters.

Baas has been terrible this year.

 

[JackBauer]

You're more generous than I am, I wouldn't give him Snee over Waters or Mankins. The Patriots have better players at both OT and OG spots and as you said their 3rd OT is better than the Giants RT.

Oh, I was just doing it for the sake of argument. I'd take either guard over Snee, I think.

 

[Catch42]

Don't concede any of those points. Snee is the only one worthy of debate, and he's not having his best season. He may or may not be better than Waters.

Baas has been terrible this year.

Baas was playing through an injury and missed several games because of it. He has been playing through the latest winning run at a much higher level.

 

[JackBauer]

Is that the third tackle they are replacing because he can't handle a bull rush or the tackle playing his first game in a couple months after breaking his jaw?

I think you may be confused. None of this applies to any of the tackles on our team.

 

[Catch42]

I think you may be confused. None of this applies to any of the tackles on our team.

I was confused and corrected earlier. It was the ankle that was injured.