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Comparing Ty Warren and DeWayne Robertson

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    One thing we all like around here second only to beating a team in a game is beating them in the draft

    Case in point, DeWayne Robertson who, as I'm sure you all recall, was drafted at #4 as BB spooked the Jets into trading away a 1st round pick to move up and grab him.

    The Patriots wound up sitting "pat" for awhile, finally trading up one spot to grab Ty Warren at #13

    you can look at the #s for yourselves, but they are pretty comparable, both for this season and for their careers thus far

    Robertson - http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6340
    Warren - http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6349

    Robertson gets a few more sacks, but Warren has a few more solo tackles (and I chalk that up to different defensive schemes... but also keep in mind Robertson has missed a few games this season)

    So instead of squandering their 2nd first round choice the Pats opted to trade it to Baltimore for a future first rounder, figuring there was better value to be had in later rounds (and I'd say they were right, judging by the contributions of Eugene Wilson, Dan Koppen, Assante Samuel, Dan Klecko, Bethel Johnson and Tully Banta-Cain)

    ... and of course there was that 1st round pick from Baltimore who the Pats used to take some guy named Vince Wilfork, who continues to develop into a pretty decent run stopper

    So my unbiased opinion is that the Patriots got the better part of this deal.
     
  2. desi-patsfan

    desi-patsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Verr nice stuff, been very impressed with our draft picks.
     
  3. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I felt at the beginning of the yr this would be the yr Ty came on strong. Sey draws a lot of oxygen out of the sports pages, and Vince's improvement has raised some eyebrows as well, But Ty has been nothing but solid all yr long.
    'Bout time he got some love from the press, IMO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2005
  4. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You really should acquire a biased opinion. (Excellent work by the way.)
     
  5. KDPpatsfan

    KDPpatsfan Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Lets not get too carried away..they did draft Cobbs,Reid, and Klecko whom I think will be cut next year and hasn't contributed much. Oh and should I bring up that we used a second on Bethel Freakin Johnson?

    Drafts are hit or miss even for BB.

    Oh and here is a list of players we could have had instead of Bethel...

    Anquan Bolden
    Mike Doss
    Lee Suggs

    Need I go on?

    It's time to admit that BJ was a bust. Klecko was a fourth so no biggie but Bethel was a high second who has done NOTHING. Anyone say TONY SIMMONS
     
  6. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last yr BJ was our ONLY bright spot on Special Teams. Had above, albeit slightly, avg. league wide, 1 TD return and 1 called back. Admittedly, he's underperformed, but he's got a mulligan this yr after his ankle injury, IMHO.
     
  7. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Bethel's been a disappointment, I guess, but comparing him to Tony Simmons is hardly fair. Bethel has contributed significantly as a KR. He's made a couple of big catches - not nearly as many as we'd hoped to date, but more than Simmons. Simmons did NOTHING.
     
  8. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not only has Bethel contributed on Kick Returns, but he's been out there on Punt coverages and Kick coverages and has made some come from behind tackles to keep the opposing team from breaking one for a TD.
     
  9. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    I have to agree with you -- much though I had hopes for Klecko, TBC and Bethel, it's beginning to look like none of them are going to be starters for the team. Let's not forget the hits, though.
     
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Comparing linemen is somewhat difficult. for example...

    The Jets D-Line has something like 18.5 sacks out of a team total of 25

    The Pats D-Line hs something like 6.5 sacks out of a team total of 27

    To analyze any d lineman, by numeric comparison only may lead to false outcomes.
     
  11. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Yep. The coverage teams are where BJ's really showed up this year. Still below 2nd round value, but to say he hasn't been contibuting is nuts. And I was probably the loudest "Cut Bethel" voice in the pre-season.
     
  12. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Another factor to think about in this
    Ty Warren and DeWayne Robertson comparison is health.

    I remember read awhile back that Robertson has serious health
    concerns in the future. He may have a relatively short NFL career.
    Something about bone on bone in a knee that can't be fixed.
    They expect around 4 or 5 years until he can't play.
     
  13. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Actually it was 2 forst round picks (#13,22 Michael Haynes and Rex Grossman) and a 4th.....
     
  14. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    In the stats on ESPN for Ty it says he has recovered 5 fumbles.. That's a mistake isn't it? Have we even FORCED five fumbles? I'm kidding on that last thing, but I don't remember Ty recovering one fumble, much less 5?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=4471

    And for the record, in case anyone needs a refresher, I stated earlier this season that Bethel was now named Busto Bethel Johnson. He has contributed on ST but he was a seconrd round pick. David Tyree is a probowl ST contributer and he was a late SIXTH round pick. You don't draft a player in the second round just to excell on special freakin' teams. ESPECIALLY when the end result is an ST unit that is inconsistent and rarely leads the league in any one category during that players tenure.

    Considering the time and effort this team put in this past offseason to find other WRs to play in the offense, I'd guess that Bethel with be gone this offseason. I'd be surprised if he was retained.
     
  15. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    While I agree with your post, Bethel is signed for cheap, and we could need receivers next year. It wouldn't suprise me in the least to see him stay. The guys who this year have made me scratch my head over why they're here are Klecko and TBC.

    Has Tully played at all defensively in non-garbage time? I haven't seen him. With all the issues we've had at linebacker this year, it seems he may have regressed defensively not to get on the field. Very Good special teams player. But don't we have enough of those guys? TBC is a young player, he should be getting more reps each season. I don't see it. I guess he can have Izzo's job next year.

    As for Klecko, well, I choose not to go down that road this morning.
     
  16. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    Yes, go on. Why don't you list every pick in the 2003 draft taken ahead of Johnson who has been less than spectacular.

    Jonathan Sullivan comes to mind. And N.O. traded a pick to move up to to the 6th slot for him.

    I'm sure you have researched all 44 players taken ahead of him before you made your statement, so I won't bother.

    By the way, I know Johnson had a screw in his ankle prior to the season. I think it affected his speed this year.

    Yet he still has run back kicks and played defensively on special teams.

    He hasn't done much in the passing game and that has been a disappointment given some of the spectacular plays he had in previous seasons.

    That's still 3 roles on a championship team for someone playing at less than full speed,(IMO).

    That's a lot of nothing. And so is your analysis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2005
  17. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    If I'm remembering correctly, you were the main guy I was battling with about Klecko's roster security before the season. I was adamant that he was staying and would contribute, you were adamant that he was useless and would be cut.

    Turns out that we were both right. I was right that he'd stay. You were right that he'd be useless. I can't see him staying here much longer based on what I've seen (rather, not seen) this season. Who knows what has gone on behind the scenes, but the guy is simply invisible or inactive every week. For a 4th rounder.. not good.
     
  18. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well we probably don't go to the Super Bowl in 2003 without his monster kickoff returns against Indy and Tennessee. Or I should say it would have lowered the percentages. Bethel played a good role that year.

    And did you really say Lee Suggs ? :confused: His rookie year he did well on 56 carries, last year he averaged 3.7 YPC and this year he has 2 carries. Is he really the third best guy you can come up with ?
     
  19. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Not useless, but a waste of a roster spot in terms of contributing to the 2005 Patriots. I'm sure he would be a very useful player in Chicago or Indianapolis. I think he'll have a good career.

    It's funny, the guys he was likely competing for a roster spot with have all been back (Alexander, Mruczkowski) or we wish they were (Eckel, Chapman). Although there were some who insisted that cutting Klecko wasn't even a consideration, that it would be akin to cutting Brady, so maybe he wasn't in competition with those guys.
     
  20. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I was one that didn't even consider Klecko a bubble guy (though not near Brady, more like Matt Chatham or Larry Izzo. Guys that are solid at what they do and consistently get a roster spot for it). I was a firm "Klecko is a lock" guy. But now I am changing either heart or mind. I think if there's a simular debate this offseason that I'd be much more on the side of thinking that Klecko's roster spot could be better used.

    If he'd returned to the playing time he'd logged pre-injury then I'd feel differently, but his roles have been filled by other guys and he's hardly seen the field.
     

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