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Colvin is sorely missed, whats the answer?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by BlitzFritz, Sep 26, 2008.

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  1. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    Our pass rush is weaker than most past years, it looks.

    Colvin was a beast when he played last year, tremendous quickness.
    I understand why we didnt resign him given his foot injury
    But he was THE guy. (Like Willie was for years)

    Do you agree that Colvin is huge missing piece?

    How does this get fixed? Is Crable the answer? Or do we hope that AD and Vrabel will do what they do?
  2. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    You're on a thread posting spree aren't you? I'd really love to see Crable in the line-up giving Vrabel breathers sometime within the next couple of games. He's a beast in the pass rush from what I saw in the pre-season and in his college career.
  3. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    slow rainy day, many cycles devoted to PATS instead of work! :D
  4. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    There's no one on this team that can get to the QB like Colvin did. Just a fact. I love AD and Vrable but both are obviously not as quick as Colvin was. The answer to whether or not we can get a better pass rush might come when Dean Pees is fired and Capers takes over as the DC.
  5. Disco Volante

    Disco Volante Rookie

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    Answer: More booing.
  6. Nunchucks

    Nunchucks Rookie

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    I believe Colvin is out on the street after being cu by Housten. I like the OLBs we have a whole bunch
  7. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Colvin was BY FAR the 3rd best our 3 OLBs.
    A beast? What were you watching?
    He was OK, but a beast?
    Vrabel had a lot more sacks and pressure, and Thomas will destroy Colivns 07 production this year.
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Had to think about this for a minute, but he did not play all that well last year.. injuries were a factor, but imo he never lived up to the hype.. he knew and played well in the system, but not outstanding..
  9. SoCal Pmen

    SoCal Pmen Rookie

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    If he was a beast he wouldn't have got cut by a ****ty team like Houston. If he can't crack the Houston line up he's not going to crack the Pats line up.
  10. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    In the past, the Pats had good luck rotating their linebackers.

    I'm disappointed seeing Crable as an inactive each week especially

    since he looked good during the preseason.
  11. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot Rookie

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    colvin wouldn't make any difference this year.
  12. dtbrks

    dtbrks Rookie

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    Does anyone have the splits from when he was playing last year vs when he was out late in the season?

    My "memory" thinks the pats played better D when he was in the lineup vs not.

    As for being cut, the poor guy has been hurt so much and been through so much getting back on the field, it's just to bad he can't do it anymore, but don't say he never had it.
  13. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    wow, some very selective memory on this board. anyway, my opinion of colvin is this

    1. he was a great speed rusher on the outside, which we dont have any of right now. in 2006 he had 8.5 sacks and led the team.

    2. he got injured, which is why he didnt make houston. hes washed up now, im not saying bring him back, just that we never really replaced him.

    3. he probably wasnt a beast against the run.

    PS our pass rush is weak so far
  14. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

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    No offense to the orginal poster, but AJ you are correct. Colvin was so overrated by so many hometown fans. Watch the film. He usually was not a factor. I've seem so many similar comments and just scratch my head.

    I bet if I looked hard enough I could find the occasional "the Pats will regret letting Colvin go" comments, but I'm not going to do so.:)

    If BB wanted him, he could probably get him for the veteran minimum right now, so I suppose every other team in the league is as excited about Colvin as I am. :)
  15. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

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    I meant to mention that I too, would not mind seeing Crable getting some time. I'm quite sure we could at LEAST get the 4 sacks, 27 total tackles, and 2 passes defended that we got from Colvin last year. :)
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Vrabel got two sacks week one. Thomas got sacks in each of the first two weeks. The Pats sacked the QB 4 times in week one against the Chiefs. Favre was sacked twice in week 2 and pressured a number of times.

    Yes, the pass rush sucked against the Dolphins, but it was one game out of three where it was the case. Once again, this is a perception is reality and reality is ignored scenario. The pass rush hasn't been bad this year other than one game and the OLB spot hasn't been the problem except maybe in coverage and that wasn't Colvin's strength either.
  17. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know if Colvin has anything left but as much as I like AD on the outside the defense was better when he was on the inside.

    2007 key stats - games with Colvin vs. games without
    PPG Against - 16.8 with, 17.8 without
    Rushing YPG Against - 86 before - 124 without
    http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pXWJyKsM-8kvWJW3RwajPLg&hl=en

    Currently the Pats have serious issues at ILB, Bruschi (father time) and Mayo (learning on the job) cannot cover worth a lick and are slow to fill the hole, even when they do fill the gap they are a little undersized. My ideal situation would be to use Thomas all over the field with at least 50% of his snaps coming inside with Mayo (this includes all 3rd downs and passing situations). Thomas offers the potential of an inside blitz and is the best coverage LB they have. The rub is that if Thomas moves inside they need a capable end rusher, Colvin filled that role and also brought a little swagger. To this point neither Woods or Crable have proven they can get to the QB. As the season progresses the Pats can't continue to have Bruschi, Mayo, Harrison and Merriweather all on the field at once. They are either too slow or too lost to stop the pass.
  18. dtbrks

    dtbrks Rookie

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    Thanks. What I remember of Colvin is him setting the edge well on running plays. I also remember Reiss bringing this up after colvin went down (running D got worse)
  19. SammyBlueCat

    SammyBlueCat Rookie

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    I agree with the author. The defense was better last year with a healthy Colvin starting. Statistics may or may not be misleading. He did not sack the QB every time but he did create pressure; pressure that might have got to Eli during the final drive of the Super Bowl. Is it a coincidence that the defense looked vulnerable when Colvin went to the DL?

    Having wrote all of that, I doubt he can help us this year unless he is 100% healed.
  20. SoCal Pmen

    SoCal Pmen Rookie

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    They looked better last year because the team was up by three touchdowns every game and it made the opposing team's offense one dimensional and easier to dissect.
  21. KillEM

    KillEM Banned

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    Vrabel looks slow this year.

    Slower than usual
  22. Rob0729

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    These stats are misleading. Colvin's injury coincided with the slowing down of the Pats offense. Teams ran more against the Pats later in the season because they weren't down by 2-3 TDs by halftime.
  23. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I do think it was a coincidence that the defense looked vunerable when Colvin went down. Which had more of an affect on the defense: the loss of Colvin or the fact that teams weren't playing catch up and being one dimensional hucking the ball down field.

    Besides, the only games the Pats gave up more than 13 points during the regular season that Colvin didn't play in were Baltimore and the Giants. Even in the playoffs, the Pats defense didn't give up more than 20 points.

    As for the final drive of the Super Bowl, pressure wasn't the problem during that drive. The pressure made Eli make some horrendous throws. How would Colvin's pressure make Samuel or Meriweather hold onto surefire interceptions? How would pressure been any different on the Tyree pass? Thomas was dominant pass rushing on that final drive. I don't know how Colvin would have done better.

    The defense was better just because Seau and Bruschi could rotate, but it wasn't significantly better.
  24. MassPats38

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    LBs benefit from the defensive linemen requiring double team blocks, leaving open a clean path to the QB. Is that happening this year? If it's not, Colvin runs into an offensive lineman and goes nowhere.

    The team played with substantial leads last year for most of the games. That puts the opposing team into a predictable passing play selection situation to play catch up. Do you expect more sacks on a running play or a passing play?

    Who is faster, Thomas or Colvin? Who had more sacks last year as OLB, Vrabel or Colvin?

    I like Colvin, but he old, frequently injured and no Lawrence Taylor standing as the missing link to spur this team to defensive greatness. He changes nothing if he returns, or actually causes the team to take a step back on defense.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2008
  25. cstjohn17

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    This is the key point, Seau, Bruschi, Thomas, Vrabel, Colvin provided good insurance in case of injury.

    Pre-Colvin inury - At the start of the year Thomas took a lot of snaps inside which allowed Bruschi and Seau to stay fresh. Vrabel and Colvin were also kept fresher when Thomas took some snaps outside.

    Post Colvin Injury - Positions were set in stone, Thomas, Brushi, Seau and Vrabel. Zero depth behind them. Thomas had his up and down moments on the outside but came on strong in the playoffs, particularly the Superbowl where he was a demon.

    2008 - The LB unit may be deeper from 1-9 but there is a big dropoff from the starters to any of the subs. In 2007 having 5 competent NFL starters combined with ADs flexibility allowed the unit to be productive. This year the outside LBs are holding their own but there are concerns at ILB, especially with Bruschi having to play all 3 downs. The situation at LB gets pretty scary if any of the starters go down.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2008
  26. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    Colvin had a nack for making the play at a key moment. The San Diego game in SD. The Indy game when Peyton threw it to him.

    He made plays. He is a fav of mine. Too bad he's not what he use to be. Is he better than Woods when healthy? Yes IMO
  27. billdog3484

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    I agree 100%. our pass rush since his injury v. the Bills has been non-existent. I think vrabel is a bit overrated as a pass rusher, while thomas should be better the rest of the year. our DLine has to start dominating at the point of attack to create gaps for the LBs to shoot and attack the QB.
  28. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We should understand that Crable is not our #3 OLB. Woods is #3, and should beat this point.
  29. cstjohn17

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    Not sure what you mean, I have never seen Woods get near a QB. Colvin was not Reggie White but he made his share of plays. Woods is a special teamer, he hasn't even hit the Tulla Bunta Cain level as a LB. Hopefully he or Crable can emerge as a semi-credible pass rush threat but as of right now last years rotation at LB was more productive and deeper than the 08 squad.
  30. condon84

    condon84 Rookie

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    They are not using AD the way they used him in the Super Bowl. Vrabel becomes the rusher out of the two OLB and AD goes back into coverage. The couple of times I've seen AD used in the pass rush, he's applied good pressure.

    I'm not saying Vrabel cannot apply pressure because he is a good rusher as well, but I think AD would be a complete beast if he were given Vrabel's responsibility. However, AD is so much better in coverage than Vrabel that they will automatically have Vrabel always rush and AD go into coverage.

    Another issue with our third down package is that Jarvis Green and Wright come in as DL. They're not really applying pressure from the inside. Green might still be injured, because normally, he's a good pass rusher. I've noticed Wright apply pressure a couple of times but not enough to be a real factor.

    They should make AD a DE along with Vrabel on the other side, during third and long because he is our best pass rusher.
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