Columnist: T.O.'s star has "drastically fallen"

[apple strudel]

Ya know, you could have just said "I quit". It would have taken up a lot less of your time. Tell me, are you ready to admit that football is a team sport, and the TEAM wins and loses?

Unless you have a team-crapper on it. There are such things as locker room cancers.

Are you ready to admit that T.O. did all he could in the biggest game of his life to help his TEAM win and was let down by all of the other components on his TEAM?

That's a pretty simplistic analysis of that game, and TO's stint on the Eagles.

Are you ready to admit that, statistically, T.O. has been one of the best two WRs of this generation and top ten material all time?

He's got good numbers, but I would never want him on my team, for all the reasons you cite about football being a team game, while TO is a selfish player. Wait now, you still haven't picked up on the irony of your team argument?

For God's sake, man, you're getting destroyed in this thread.

Really, no.

Perhaps it's back to the Political forum for you after this...

That forum is worse than this one.

 

[Satchboogie3]

And he was tied for 3rd in 2008! What a clutch player! I wish it would be easier to track drop rate, which would be pretty telling as well.

1t Dallas Clark Ind 12
1t Braylon Edwards Cle 12
3t Reggie Bush NO 10
3t Devery Henderson NO 10
3t Santana Moss Was 10
3t Terrell Owens Dal 10

I'm sorry, but I have to call you out for what you are, an idiot. First of all, that is the only "knock" against TO. He does EVERYTHING else really damned well. Second, the guy is targeted a TON. There is a reason why the guys that drop the most passes tend to be the guys getting thrown to the most... it's called percentage.

What in the world are you basing your assertion that "TO isn't clutch" on? Many people have already pointed out SB 39 where he had a big game (100+ yards) on a BROKEN LEG! If you try to argue "he was only doing it for attention", not only would it only be YOUR opinion and not based on fact, it would be irrelevant. His motive doesn't matter, all that matters is his performance.

 

[apple strudel]

I'm sorry, but I have to call you out for what you are, an idiot.

Well that's certainly not true. But thanks for starting your post out on the lowest of grounds, I guess.

First of all, that is the only "knock" against TO.

Not really.

He does EVERYTHING else really damned well.

He's not a good teammate.

Second, the guy is targeted a TON.

Which is why I opined for a drop rate statistic. Please keep up.

There is a reason why the guys that drop the most passes tend to be the guys getting thrown to the most... it's called percentage.

Yeah, reading is fundamental.

What in the world are you basing your assertion that "TO isn't clutch" on? Many people have already pointed out SB 39 where he had a big game (100+ yards) on a BROKEN LEG!

Game plan.

If you try to argue "he was only doing it for attention", not only would it only be YOUR opinion and not based on fact, it would be irrelevant. His motive doesn't matter, all that matters is his performance.

Game plan.

 

[Satchboogie3]

That 1) TO's not clutch on the field, 2) his megalomania is part of that, 3) he's an undisciplined football player, and 4) he's more a liability than an asset on the field? I haven't forgotten it. Maybe you have.

So I already addressed #1, #4 is absolute bull****. Unless you can actually give EVIDENCE to show why he's more of a liability than asset, you won't be taken seriously. As for #3, that again is pure bull**** and speculation. The guy is extremely hard working. It's the reason why he is such a strong receiver, he has an insane work out. Your getting his personality mixed up with his work ethic. I haven't read a single reliable source claim that TO doesn't work hard or is "undisciplined". He does run good routes, he makes spectacular catches, he can catch in traffic, he has great foot work, good speed, and is the best yards-after-catch receiver in the NFL, I haven't ever read anything about him being unprepared for a game or anything... so where the hell did you come up with that?

 

[Kontradiction]

Nice. I see you're still trying to punt to his ego when the clear cut argument you made from the beginning was his play on the field. Nobody has denied that he has an ego and might, by all means, be insane. His play on the field is unquestionable, however. He's done all he can to help his team win. His attitude in the locker room has never been the point of this thread. Even the original post revolved around how T.O.'s PLAY has fallen so far this year.

That's a pretty simplistic analysis of that game, and TO's stint on the Eagles.

No it's not. It's a pretty straight forward analysis. Are you seriously going to try and tell me that T.O. wasn't awesome when he was with the Eagles? Are you really going to try to blame that loss on him, and not McNabb who was completely gassed at the end for whatever reason?

He's got good numbers, but I would never want him on my team, for all the reasons you cite about football being a team game, while TO is a selfish player. Wait now, you still haven't picked up on the irony of your team argument?

No, I get where you're going to go with it. "That T.O. was a cancer, he didn't play as a team, blah blah blah". Yes, I would expect that you punt to that. You've been punting in this entire thread. However, I'm speaking about T.O.'s on-field contributions. In 99.9% of the games he's played in, he's contributed significantly and helped his team... hence why he's one of the best WR's of this generation.

 

[apple strudel]

I haven't read a single reliable source claim that TO doesn't work hard or is "undisciplined".

He works out hard, sure, but his drops show he's undisciplined on the field.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Game plan.

So your argument is really just "game plan"? When he performs well in the clutch it's just game plan and when he doesn't, he sucks? Sounds like cherry picking to me.

 

[Kontradiction]

He works out hard, sure, but his drops show he's undisciplined on the field.

Ah, so Dallas Clark is undisciplined on the field as well? Drops happen. As has been pointed out, our own Randy Moss has dropped his own fair share of balls. Even last year, in big games, he dropped some big ones. Does that make him "undisciplined"? Nope. But then there has been so many holes in your arguments that I wouldn't expect you to realize that.

 

[Satchboogie3]

He works out hard, sure, but his drops show he's undisciplined on the field.

So because he isn't perfect at one aspect of receiving, he is undisciplined. I guess that means every receiver not named Jerry Rice is undisciplined, because non do everything perfectly...

EDIT: Just realized I was being unfairly Biased towards Jerry Rice. EVEN Rice dropped plenty of passes. He dropped 16 in his rookie season and had a good deal of drops in his career. Not only that, but the guy was known to be somewhat of a prick when his team decided to run the ball a lot or run it in the redzone. Sound like someone else?

 

[apple strudel]

Nice. I see you're still trying to punt to his ego when the clear cut argument you made from the beginning was his play on the field.

One doesn't play to the other? Really?

His play on the field is unquestionable, however.

Not really.

He's done all he can to help his team win.

Except catch the ball and not piss all over his teammates.

His attitude in the locker room has never been the point of this thread.

Sounds like you know he hurts his team.

No it's not. It's a pretty straight forward analysis.

Not really.

Are you seriously going to try and tell me that T.O. wasn't awesome when he was with the Eagles?

The team that had been to 4 division championships without him was better than he was. And his second year of course was a travesty.

Are you really going to try to blame that loss on him

Where the h*ll did I do that? Please show me.

However, I'm speaking about T.O.'s on-field contributions.

You're still not following this argument. His character essentially makes him a bad player on the field. He wants the ball. As a result he wants his team to be one-dimensional and predictable. As a result, he wants his team to be bad and easy to defend.

In 99.9% of the games he's played in, he's contributed significantly and helped his team...

What's his career winning percentage?

hence why he's one of the best WR's of this generation.

Not in my opinion.

 

[Kontradiction]

So because he isn't perfect at one aspect of receiving, he is undisciplined. I guess that means every receiver not named Jerry Rice is undisciplined, because non do everything perfectly...

He clearly has no idea what he's talking about. It's actually become borderline hilarious. I will give him style points for the fact that he hasn't quit though...

 

[apple strudel]

So because he isn't perfect at one aspect of receiving, he is undisciplined. I guess that means every receiver not named Jerry Rice is undisciplined, because non do everything perfectly...

Perfect is hard, but this guy drops the ball on 3rd down and key points in the game. He's like a career long Reche Caldwell.

 

[apple strudel]

... the fact that he hasn't quit though...

With TO the arguing is pretty easy, to be honest. He is precisely what he is.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Perfect is hard, but this guy drops the ball on 3rd down and key points in the game. He's like a career long Reche Caldwell.

Name one HOF WR who hasn't dropped a few passes on 3rd downs or at key points? No one is perfect. Even Rice wasn't.

 

[apple strudel]

Name one HOF WR who hasn't dropped a few passes on 3rd downs or at key points? No one is perfect. Even Rice wasn't.

We're not talking about a few passes. He's leading the league as we speak.

 

[apple strudel]

Anyways, good night ladies! It's been fun but I have tons of **** to do in the morning.

 

[ausbacker]

It's clear as a sunny day that one "argument" I guess you could call it has become increasingly embarrassing the longer this topic goes on.

I'm glad we seem to view TO in the same light Kontra and Satch. I don't feel like such an idiot anymore for calling the blazingly obvious

 

[theglorydays]

Perfect is hard, but this guy drops the ball on 3rd down and key points in the game. He's like a career long Reche Caldwell.

It is funny that you continue to argue despite being embarrassed in this thread.

TO is pretty damn clutch if you ask me. Do you remember the wildcard game vs Green Bay when TO was just a kid in this league? Or did you not follow football back then? After all the Pats hadn't won a superbowl yet...

Anyway, i seem to remember TO dropping balls in that game, but when it matter most, with the game on the line, he caught the game winner. But he isn't clutch...

I also remember him having a great performance against the Patriots in the superbowl, one that would have most likely been an MVP performance if the Eagles had pulled it off, but again he isn't clutch...

And what about Randy Moss? I would argue he is possibly the best wide receiver ever, better then TO.

What about him being clutch? I seem to remember Moss dropping a touchdown in the first quarter of the 1999 nfc championship game, one that if he would have caught, would have gave his team the win.

You cannot win this argument, you have been proven wrong. But you keep hanging on to your opinion, which is just that, an opinion...

 

[Kontradiction]

One doesn't play to the other? Really?

No. His locker room antics have nothing to do with the fact that he was excellent on the field and one of the hardest receivers in the NFL to cover. Just ask Bill Belichick.

Not really.

Really? His career stats have been posted. I suggest you check them out. But you probably haven't and probably won't because it's not convenient for you. Really though, great counterargument. The stuff of legends.

Except catch the ball and not piss all over his teammates.

Name one receiver that has never dropped the ball.

Sounds like you know he hurts his team.

I've admitted that his ego has been the problem. However, you can also attribute that to coaches who put up with his nonsense. You think BB would put up with him if he came here? The fault lies on both sides, but his ego has been the clear cutting point in his career. Not his play on the field.

Not really.

Please explain how it's not a straight forward analysis. Please explain how he cost his team that game. Please explain how he DIDN'T shred the Pats defense everytime he caught the ball. Please explain how many drops he had in that game. Please explain SOMETHING. Putting "not really" in just doesn't cut it.

The team that had been to 4 division championships without him was better than he was. And his second year of course was a travesty.

The fact that they finally got to the big game only after they got him disagrees with you. Really just a very, very bad statement.

Where the h*ll did I do that? Please show me.

Which time would you like me to point out? You just did! I said that he played well in the Super Bowl and it was really McNabb that cost him the game and that it was a straight forward analysis and you responded with "Not Really". Are you having trouble keeping track of your own nonsense or something?

You're still not following this argument. His character essentially makes him a bad player on the field. He wants the ball. As a result he wants his team to be one-dimensional and predictable. As a result, he wants his team to be bad and easy to defend.

First, I don't want to meet a wide receiver that DOESN'T want the ball thrown to him. Second, his character does nothing on the field. It's more or less a problem in the locker room. Third of all, it's up to the coaching staff to call the plays, not T.O. Last I checked, play calling has not been a big issue in his career.

What's his career winning percentage?

Just read this: Cold, Hard Football Facts.com: The T stands for terrific, not tantrum

But since I have a feeling you won't read that, here is the tidbit you might be interested in...

Over his career, T.O. has started 154 regular season games – and this noted divider of teams, this distraction on the field and off, has won 100 of those games.

His career winning percentage is on there though, but you have to adjust it for 2008, a year in which Tony Romo was injured and the Cowboys only finished at 9-7 (still a winning record).

Not in my opinion.

Wow. I'm swayed.

 

[BradyFTW!]

It is funny that you continue to argue despite being embarrassed in this thread.

TO is pretty damn clutch if you ask me. Do you remember the wildcard game vs Green Bay when TO was just a kid in this league?

Great point- most people don't remember that catch. That was before Owens had established himself, but for me that was when I realized "goddamn, this guy's going to be a player in the league...". Steve Young threaded the needle with that pass, but goddamn it took absurd talent and concentration for Owens to haul it down.

Bottom line, Owens is a hell of a player on the field. An all-time great, even. Everyone but apple strudel is well aware of that, though, so I think we can pretty clearly chalk it up to a) common sense, and b) strudel has, for whatever reason, completely lost his mind. Maybe Owens ran over his dog a few years ago or something.


And Kontra, I don't know if you got the memo, but it came through just last week. Offensive players are supposed to not want the ball now. They're supposed to hope that it gets thrown to someone else, or something.