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Columbia U: Take Our New OWS Class

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Leave No Doubt, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. PatsFanInVa

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    I would hope that readin, ritin, and rithmatic would be taken care of by the time one is an upperclassman at an ivy league university. (Same applies if they're teaching biology, physics, or Shakespeare... this isn't the time for figuring out whether the 6+6 is 12 or 13.)
  2. The Brandon Five

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    #75 Jersey

    No, I think it is pretty dodgy to "participate" in the movement under the guise of getting an education. I.e. there should be no partisan political activity required or awarded credit as part of a college course.
  3. DarrylS

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    Every university in this country has "dodgy" courses that students "participate" in, it is what it is college education in America.

    Consider some of these courses..

    A Couple from Bob Jones U..

  4. PatriotsReign

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    No university outside of religious based universities should try to influence their students' political views. Especially a public university. I realize the Columbia is a private university, but why would they want to influence student political views?

    Will universities become training grounds for grooming the next generation of liberal or conservative thought?

    What they SHOULD do is show both sides without comment and let their students decide which fits their own personal values.

    A university as an enitity should not have a political perspective...not privately or publically.
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2012
  5. The Brandon Five

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    #75 Jersey

    I don't see anything political about those. That is what I think is dodgy: the partisanship. I don't oppose Columbia doing so, it just makes me lose a little more respect for them.

    I think that place is a little bonkers, but I don't see anything weird about those courses at a Bible college.
  6. DarrylS

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    So it is ok to try to "influence" students at a private, religious university, but not ok to "study" a current movement at a private, secular university.

    This is not a required course, and probably about 30 students will take this offering out of 27,000+ who are enrolled at Columbia...

    Why do you want to control this???? I continue to be baffled, now the right wants to control what is taught at private universities..

    Did my graduate work at BU, could have taken all kinds of stuff if I chose, but as I was already "converted" stuck to what I needed.
  7. DarrylS

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    Focus on being a godly man???? I do not oppose the content, just an example how anything can be construed or misconstrued.
  8. PatsWSB47

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    #12 Jersey

    Bob Jones U apologists wouldn't get away saying those courses were simply part of a well rounded education with the goal of doing research and learning about research would they? Perhaps the students would wind up gaining some of that skill set as one result of taking the classes but lets take the glasses off. The agendas of a Bob Jones U "Counseling Men" course and a Columbia U OWS course are pretty easy to spot.
  9. DarrylS

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    Why do you care?? Why do you want to control what happens at a private secular college??

    It is a freaking elective..

    Are you all that threatened by one elective course in a university of over 27,000 students????

    If it was a prerequisite that everyone had to take, could understand the concern.. but it is not.
  10. The Brandon Five

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    #75 Jersey

    Bob Jones is a fundamentalist Christian school. They are open about what they are.

    Columbia is secular and theoretically non-partisan.
  11. The Brandon Five

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    #75 Jersey

    I would. He probably learned more there than in the classroom.
  12. Harry Boy

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    Makes me glad I'm stupid, I never had to think about swill like that all my life, I took advantage of what America has to offer out there and did my own thing, I had a lot of fun growing old in America, I worked.

    It would be a cold day in Hell before I would pay to have one of my kids go to a college that wasted my kids time studying about those OWS ass holes or Lady Ga Ga's Vagina.

    "mommy"
    "yes dear"
    "will you help me with my homework"
    "yes dear, what are we doing"
    "fellopian tubes, OWS pup tents and Lady Ga Ga's overies"
    "ok"
  13. PatriotsReign

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    No, that is not what I wrote Darryl.

    I said that no "non-religious" university should attempt to influence their student's political thought. I further added that their job is to actually educate them to make up their own minds regarding the political spectrum.

    No university should try to influence student thought to either the right or the left (outside of religious schools).

    And finally, I wrote that this is expecially true of public (state) universities. After all, neither you nor I would want our tax dollars used to help support the spread of partisan political views.

    So we are left with the question, "Is it ok to offer a course on OWS?" Sure, as long as that university offers accredited courses on the opposing view!
  14. The Brandon Five

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    Please show where anyone has expressed a desire to "control" Columbia.
  15. Leave No Doubt

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    I think so too in fact now that you mention it that might be one of the things I don't like about this course. OTOH OWS is unique in that the protesters lived together for 3 months, forming a little micro society with it's own rules etc. so that's probably the reason they rated their very own separate class lol.

    I think in theory the class has or could have merit if it's done right, plus it's an elective for upper/post grads only so I'm ok with that part.

    In theory I'm ok with the class offering itself but as I mentioned before there are details I dislike and frankly it even disturbs me a little on some weird level but then again, as has been discussed here a few times, education in general's gone off in a strange direction.
  16. PatsWSB47

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    #12 Jersey

    Not threatened in the least and in an earlier post said they have every right to teach whatever they want in so many words. Columbia can knock themselves out for all I care. I'm a little amused though to see some here pretend that it's all in the name of higher education and devoid of any agenda. I wonder if these kids taking these electives know they're also being recruited?
  17. Leave No Doubt

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    That's how it SHOULD be but in reality it isn't. There are tons of articles out there but I'll use this one because I just saw it recently. In fact I read it just before I saw the Columbia article LOL. "Bingo"

    But still, I agree about education's overall direction going DOWN. Not to derail my own thread (WHO one-starred it btw I think it's been mostly very interesting and lots of people made some very good points so I'm gonna 5-star it:p) but basic education in public schools is going to hell in a handbasket. Not only that, they've turned into mini prisons between the food police, the behavior police, teachers who get lap dances from the basketball team, coaches who molest and abuse, bus drivers who drive drunk and it goes on. All of this is apparently affecting kids' education:
    The underlined are linked in the article.

    28 Signs That U.S. Public Schools Are Rapidly Being Turned Into Indoctrination Centers And Prison Camps
  18. PatsWSB47

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    me too but my point was that the debate became a false choice between OWS or similar courses and traditional courses.
  19. PatsFanInVa

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    Gotcha, 42.

    PR, your contention that the only people who could have an actual political slant is a religious institution is just hilarious. I mean I could see if what you said were "a private institution," though I would disagree. It's the identification between religion, and the "privilege" to teach (speak) freely, that cracks me up.

    Using state money to teach one or another religion, while practiced, is unconstitutional -- just as if the Feds were to tap your preacher on the shoulder and ask for Uncle Sam's "cut" from the collection plate. It's a wall between church and state, not a one-way valve.

    To the point of the whole kerfuffle about who's public and who's not, there's this:

    Financial Aid | Bob Jones University

    There's no part of the constitution that forbids the establishment of a class on OWS, or that forbids the establishment of study of Lady Gaga, gender, and feminism, or even (had the actual course been about that,) her hoo-haw.

    There is an establishment clause: Congress shall make no law with respect to the establishment of a religion.

    If the law is about federal student aid, and it's used to teach my college kid to be a good Christian, that's not a constitutional law, if you ax me. You need the law to be for secular education only.

    Frankly, the Constitution doesn't say jack about state or federal funds going to teaching Marxism, vactioning, or Lady Gaga's hoo-haw. It does say you can't use them to establish one religion over others.

    My understanding is that they went away from "no state money for religion" and toward "state money for any religion" at some point, although I don't get that interpretation. I'm also pretty sure it would lather people up pretty well if someone started a "school of Sharia law" and they had a financial aid page structured precisely like Bob Jones'.

    PFnV
  20. PatsFanInVa

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    I just can't do "is our children learning" tonight. I have to draw the line somewhere.

    I will say this: fixing the schools means fixing the schools, not letting every cracker in crackerdom decide what's science, what's history, etc., to suit their own tastes.

    Lots of fix ideas out there -- including this fascination with charter schools, etc. -- but just as a driveby, I don't think we need 100 different myth-based belief systems running around masquerading for the basic facts. A, B, and C can be taught universally, as can 2+2=4. It's definitely to our advantage to make sure it gets taught in the schools, not divert funds to the local all-week sunday school.

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