Colts vs. Pats Pass Defense

[ATippett56]

Sigh.... Every single Indy fan or troll says that?

What do you think?

 

[He Ban Me]

Blah Blah Blah! Your comments on this board are worthless. Keep denigrating and disrespecting the New England Patriots as you normally do. With your pathetic view of the Patriots, I guess the 0-8 Patriots have no chance whatsoever against the 7-0 Colts.

Tippett, I thought I did away with you. Do you READ??? We're comparing opponents, and asking if those opponents/results are a good measure of overall quality of both Pats and Colts. Many have posited that the Colts hadn't played anybody of any worth. And each week you chime in about how, well, your "next opponent" [insert Tampa, Jax, or Carolina here] will finally present a challenge. When none do, you're back to your old trolling self. I'm just merely pointing out that while the Colts may not have faced the stiffest of competition, neither have the Pats. To be honest, there really isn't much by way of a "test" this year in the NFL. Not very many balanced teams, and of course, bu now, many teams are missing key contributors. So, stop flaming, and say something that might provoke some relevant football discussion.

 

[Metaphors]

Rivers, Romo, and Anderson?? How many COMBINED STARTS does that TRIO have??

You are missing the point. Not looking at if the Pats or Colts should win against these teams (they are far and away the best teams in the league...they should win every game except one will lose on Sunday). The point was to see if the pass defenses, both highly ranked, had faced anything like what they are going to face on Sunday. The Pats have faced top QBs (Palmer, Romo), top WRs (TO, CJ), top TEs (Gates, Winslow, Witten) and top receiving combos (CJ/TJ, Edwards/Winslow, TO/Witten).

Your examples are pretty weak. I didn't even mention Coles, Cotchery, Evans, Randel El and Cooley...who are all more talented than the crew you mentioned. Devery Henderson? Andre Davis? Ike Hilliard? Kerry Colbert? I live in NC and Colbert is a running joke around here.

The Colts haven't faced anyone close to dangerous in the passing game. NO, HOU and TB are competent but don't scare anyone. DEN has some potential but is undermanned. TEN and JAX don't even try to pass. CAR can't get out of their own way.

Doesn't mean the Colts can't play good pass defense or that they won't be effective on Sunday. It is what it is...which mean we don't know if they are who we think they are. And I don't think the Pats will let them off the hook.

 

[Metaphors]

I'm just merely pointing out that while the Colts may not have faced the stiffest of competition, neither have the Pats. To be honest, there really isn't much by way of a "test" this year in the NFL.

So if your point is that the Pats and Colts are the only competitive passing offenses in the NFL this year, you should just say that. I don't agree with you, but it is a defendable point. You can shoot down the Pats' competition as being overrated (again, don't agree) but you just look silly trying to defend the passing attacks the Colts have faced.

 

[Amnorix]

I'm not sure your conclusions are sound. Even taking your measurement of passer rating, the only top-tier passing team the Colts have played is TB...and that is skewed by short passing, high accuracy and lack of interceptions (like the Jets except for Pennington's recent "killer int to end the game" frenzy). Nobody fears the Bucs passing attack.

Facing Garcia and a bunch of average Joes is not equal to facing Romo (with an 'R'), Palmer, Rivers and D.Anderson (made better by solid Brown's receiving threats).

I'm not saying that the Colt's pass D is bad. I'm just saying that there isn't enough evidence yet to make a determination. So at this point you have to take the #1 pass D rating with a serious grain of salt.

Everything is built on assumptions. One assumption is that the use of opponent QB Rating is a valid methodology. Frankly, it isn't. Not even close. But it's as close as we're going ot get unless you plan to break down game film etc. Even that would be a relatively useless exercise, but it'd be better than what I did. But I'm just Joe Fan with <100 hours to spend on this project.

Second assumption is that each team that both the Pats and Colts were playing against were at their average level of efficiency and healthy when they played them. That's not true. Andre Johnson was out for HOuston against the Colts. The Pats played Miami right after they traded Chambers (though they have such a low rank anyway, it's hard to imagine that much of an impact -- how mcuh worse can they get?).

Try to remember tha tyou can only play the schedule you have, and that it's unlikely that (m)any other team(s) has faced an appreciably higher level of opponents. My arm-chair analysis suggests both these teams defenses have faced, over the course of the season, a roughly "average" level of opponent passing offense quality.

It's a down and dirty method, that's all.

 

[Amnorix]

Did you know that all your suck ass teams you play this year are also played by your East counterparts. Meaning that the teams YOU face get to feast on the suckiness that IS the Jets and Fins. All these sucky teams play each other, and wallow, or apparently, are exaulted in this suckiness. Seriously, Browns score what, 51 on bengals, and in the same game, the Bengals scored 45 on the Browns?? It a GD suck fest!!

No relevance. Sorry. Please try a little less ranting and a little more thinking.

 

[He Ban Me]

You are missing the point. Not looking at if the Pats or Colts should win against these teams (they are far and away the best teams in the league...they should win every game except one will lose on Sunday). The point was to see if the pass defenses, both highly ranked, had faced anything like what they are going to face on Sunday. The Pats have faced top QBs (Palmer, Romo), top WRs (TO, CJ), top TEs (Gates, Winslow, Witten) and top receiving combos (CJ/TJ, Edwards/Winslow, TO/Witten).

Your examples are pretty weak. I didn't even mention Coles, Cotchery, Evans, Randel El and Cooley...who are all more talented than the crew you mentioned. Devery Henderson? Andre Davis? Ike Hilliard? Kerry Colbert? I live in NC and Colbert is a running joke around here.

The Colts haven't faced anyone close to dangerous in the passing game. NO, HOU and TB are competent but don't scare anyone. DEN has some potential but is undermanned. TEN and JAX don't even try to pass. CAR can't get out of their own way.

Doesn't mean the Colts can't play good pass defense or that they won't be effective on Sunday. It is what it is...which mean we don't know if they are who we think they are. And I don't think the Pats will let them off the hook.

Well, IMO, you have missed the point. CJ and PALMER cannot get out of THEUIR own way. AND, when Rudi is out, kinda makes it a little easier to defend the pass, eh?? Romo is a nice QB, but he IS Brett Favreish, he doesn't respect possessing the football. He sprays the field, hoping his receivers will "go get it". He's started less than a full 16 game season. Rivers is gonna be okay, but he's in Romo's boat as far as experience goes. I don't fear Rivers/Gates like I might "fear" LT. All these "tandems" are great, if you have a guy that can deliver the ball. Winslow??? He'll never be among the best, he's too worried about being perceived as a "warrior" to concentrate on his skills. I'd take 15 other TE's in the league before him. Cooley is good, but even versus teams NOT called the Pats, sometimes he disappears, or Campbell doesn't get it to him. At this point, i don't think either team is necessarily "more prepared" than the other. Colts have been in "tighter games", but not fair to "discount" the Pats, because they were good enough to avoid a tight game.

 

[ATippett56]

Tippett, I thought I did away with you.

Get this thru your thick skull. This is a New England Patriots message board for New England Patriots fans. We don't need a minister of disinformation from the IndyStar message board.

 

[Metaphors]

Well, IMO, you have missed the point.

I started the thread so I established the point. Nice try though. I accept you view that neither pass defense has faced anything like what they will face on Sunday. I don't agree with you but that's not the point either, is it?

 

[ATippett56]

So, stop flaming, and say something that might provoke some relevant football discussion.

All you do is make up information about the Patriots opponents. As for relevant football discussion, you are completely worthless since you do not do ANY RESEARCH WHATSOEVER!

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-n=1

The top ten offenses the New England Patriots defense has faced this year:

#2 Dallas
#4 Cleveland
#6 Cincinnati
#8 San Diego

The top ten offenses the Indianapolis Colts defense has faced this year:

#10 Houston

This once again proves the Indianapolis Colts defense is a bunch of frauds, especially considering the Indianapolis Colts played the Houston Texans without wide receiver Andre Johnson and their top two running backs.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Well, IMO, you have missed the point. CJ and PALMER cannot get out of THEUIR own way. AND, when Rudi is out, kinda makes it a little easier to defend the pass, eh??

Kind of like how it is easier to stop Hou without Johnson, Denver without Walker, and Jax without Gerrard. Actually, my examples are more relevant since they are QB/WRs that are out as opposed to a RB.

Romo is a nice QB, but he IS Brett Favreish, he doesn't respect possessing the football. He sprays the field, hoping his receivers will "go get it". He's started less than a full 16 game season.

Dallas had the #1 ranked passing offense when we played them. Romo is a good QB, so is Brett Favre. I don't find your point particularly strong here.

While we can all agree (to some degree anyway) that no offense in the league is near as good as the Pats or Colts, I think there has been sufficient evidence presented to show that the Patriots have faced better passing offenses thus far.

We can also agree that this amounts to an "on paper" advantage for the Patriots that means little compared to actually playing the game.

I look forward to seeing the results

 

[homergreg]

What do you think?

I for one haven't. If I'm wrong about that, I'm sure you'll point that out. Just trying to bring some honest open discussion, not just parroting "Sanders, Sanders, Sanders" as the answer to any questions about Indy's defense when discussing the matches. The Patriots offense is the powerhouse in the NFL this year. I hope that the Colts defense might generate some turnovers that might make the difference in the game.

 

[FlyingElvis75]

average for each team

Colts 84.04
Pats 83.72

pretty even

I think you're not supposed to average single-game pass ratings, since it sets the # of passes per game equal. I think you're supposed to do total completions, attempts, yards, TDs, INTs from all games and calculate from that (but you'd have to leave out games vs. Colts and Pats to get to what we're interested in). But it wouldn't surprise me if that turned out to be pretty even, too.

 

[indycolts685]

I think you're not supposed to average single-game pass ratings, since it sets the # of passes per game equal. I think you're supposed to do total completions, attempts, yards, TDs, INTs from all games and calculate from that (but you'd have to leave out games vs. Colts and Pats to get to what we're interested in). But it wouldn't surprise me if that turned out to be pretty even, too.

yeah your probably right, I just took all the numbers that were posted and added them all up and divided them by number of games, not sure if it means anything but thats what the average was for both teams, I was surprised it was so close..