Colts shopping Robert Mathis (pats involved)

[NEPatriot]

Just some factual information in response to you voicing your concern over the cap. Mathis has a salary of 2.4m this season. His bonus money only counts against his original team if he gets traded. So the Pats would only have to pay him his remaining salary over the next 10 games. 10/16 x 2.4m = 1.5m left in paychecks in 2011.

Robert Mathis Contract, Salaries, and Transactions

The Pats are very capable of absorbing Mathis' cap number for this year. As far as resigning. That question would only come up later IF he performed very, very well.

Thanks for the update. Even with those numbers I'd still pass. But that's just me.

 

[cstjohn17]

I'd pass. I think if BB let the DL not worry about also playing the run, you'd see much higher sack totals. I don't think he'd be worth the investment.

Really? I love the draft but 3rd rounders miss way more than they hit. I would trade a 3rd in two seconds, add in a 2nd for Wayne (cheap 1/2 year rental and then franchise him after the season). I will pick them both up at the airport.

Here is a list of 3rd round picks from the Patriots since 2000. When Nick Kaczur is the best player on the list nothing else needs to be said. I would trade all of them for Mathis, just look at his production.
Robert Mathis, DE for the Indianapolis Colts at NFL.com

Even if he is one dimensional, it is the dimension the Patriots are missing. BB mentioned that one of the reasons they switched to a 4-3 is because over 50% of the time they are in nickel defense (ie. pass defense). Just in case we forgot, the Patriots are dead last in the NFL in passing yards against.
NFL Stats: by Team Category


Patriots 3rd round picks from 2000-2011
National Football League: NFL Draft History - by Team
Steven Ridley
Ryan Mallett
Taylor Price
Brandon Tate
Tyrone McKenzie
Shawn Crable
Kevin O'Connell
David Thomas
Ellis Hobbs
Nick Kaczur
Guss Scott
Brock Williams
J.R. Redmond

 

[cstjohn17]

Source:Colts shopping DE Robert Mathis(Falcons / Jets / Raiders / Pats) all involved as of now (Colts want a #3)

Before I get to excited, where was this posted? Link please

 

[NEPatriot]

Really? I love the draft but 3rd rounders miss way more than they hit. I would trade a 3rd in two seconds, add in a 2nd for Wayne (cheap 1/2 year rental and then franchise him after the season). I will pick them both up at the airport.

Here is a list of 3rd round picks from the Patriots since 2000. When Nick Kaczur is the best player on the list nothing else needs to be said. I would trade all of them for Mathis, just look at his production.
Robert Mathis, DE for the Indianapolis Colts at NFL.com

Even if he is one dimensional, it is the dimension the Patriots are missing. BB mentioned that one of the reasons they switched to a 4-3 is because over 50% of the time they are in nickel defense (ie. pass defense). Just in case we forgot, the Patriots are dead last in the NFL in passing yards against.
NFL Stats: by Team Category


Patriots 3rd round picks from 2000-2011
National Football League: NFL Draft History - by Team
Steven Ridley
Ryan Mallett
Taylor Price
Brandon Tate
Tyrone McKenzie
Shawn Crable
Kevin O'Connell
David Thomas
Ellis Hobbs
Nick Kaczur
Guss Scott
Brock Williams
J.R. Redmond

You've got some good points, however I still wouldn't do it. Could I be wrong in my logic? Of course. However, looking at the "possible" trade I would still pass on Mathis. Time will tell if BB actually makes the move.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Schefter speculating on what he thinks a team should do?? LOL

Would certainly give more legs to the concept of sucking for Luck, or Manning in 2012 for that matter...

LOL I know but still.

 

[cstjohn17]

You've got some good points, however I still wouldn't do it. Could I be wrong in my logic? Of course. However, looking at the "possible" trade I would still pass on Mathis. Time will tell if BB actually makes the move.

Of course he wouldn't make the move, that is what drives us crazy!

Don't let me or anyone else change your mind, stick to your guns. I often disagree with people well after logic has reason have made my positions indefensable. That is why it is called an football forum, full of experts...


Ok, I have **** to do. I really need to cut this stuff out.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Not sure I'd give up a 3rd for 1 year of production. If we really want him I'd wait until he hits FA.

Just a few points:
1. Dillon cost us a 2nd round pick. Was he worth it?
2. If we weren't willing to spend a 3rd on Mathis to go on a superbowl run, what makes you think we'd open up our wallets in free agency for him? Right now Mathis is making 2.4m on the year. This is the CHEAPEST that we'll EVER be able to get him.
3. Look at the history of Patriots 3rd round picks since 2000. Gus Scott, Tyrone Mckenzie, etc. Will we really be missing out?
4. IF the move does work out, how much does that pass rush increase our chances of winning another championship while Brady is still in his prime? If we wait until after the year, and the defense pulls another FAIL because of lack of passrush, that's one year of Bradys remaining prime that we've wasted.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Not sure I'd give up a 3rd for 1 year of production. If we really want him I'd wait until he hits FA.

the point of giving up the third is to prevent him from hitting FA. trading for him without the intent of locking him up long term would be beyond idiotic. This isnt baseball.


Id much rather give Indy the third than watch bill waste it away on another DL or DB bust.

 

[Guts]

Imagine if the Patriots do sign him...how ironic our Dline would consist of Haynesworth, Ellis, and Mathis three guys who loved to sack TB

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

I heard a more realistic rumor: CHUCK NORRIS TO SIGN WITH THE PATRIOTS!! :rocker:

 

[JJDChE]

Mathis would do absolutely nothing in our defense. I wouldn't give up anything of value to get him on this team. He's in the perfect place for him, he'll be mediocre, at best, on most other teams.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Imagine if the Patriots do sign him...how ironic our Dline would consist of Haynesworth, Ellis, and Mathis three guys who loved to sack TB

BB always loves players who've slammed us in the past...:singing: ok I'm done lol.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Hmmmm. Hasn't BB in the past spent a pick to rent a DL for a year to win a SB?

 

[ausbacker]

Mathis would do absolutely nothing in our defense. I wouldn't give up anything of value to get him on this team. He's in the perfect place for him, he'll be mediocre, at best, on most other teams.

Kinda like BenJarvus Green-Ellis is a JAG and wouldn't contribute on any other team in the NFL? Are you attempting to promote that same mindset?

 

[VJCPatriot]

Sure it would help our team a lot more to trade for Ed Reed, but since that ain't happening...

I do hear the concerns about fit and the questions about how good will Mathis be without Freeney? Those are legit concerns. Of course you also have to think, could this move backfire like the Burgess trade?

But when you consider how bad our 3rd round picks tend to be, and consider that we are playing more 4-3, there is a possibility that there IS a fit. And that Mathis could help push this defense over the top in pass rushing downs. Because right now our pass defense numbers are atrocious, and putting pressure on the QB faster might be all the secondary really needs to start to look a lot better.

 

[BradyBranch39]

I'm skeptical of adding anybody at this point in the season who hasn't played in the system before.

I'd trade a 4 and 6 for him and Wayne. No more.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Really? Can you name anyone currently on this roster who could realistically get to double digit sacks like Mathis? This defense needs help. Even if Mathis is a 'rental player', adding a credible passrush could potentially help this porous secondary so much!

And did you honestly say - "if BB let the DL not worry about also playing the run"? Hello, if you don't stop the run in this league, you're dead in the water. 3rd and longs are a lot easier to stop than 3rd and shorts. If you're not stopping the run on early downs you're setting yourself up for 3rd and shorts and that opens up the playbook for the opposing offense.

If they were asked to do what Mathis does in the Colts' defense (go after the quarterback on almost every down), then I'd be willing to bet that Carter, Anderson, and Haynesworth would all be individually capable of getting double digit sacks. TBC did in 2009, it's not like you have to be an amazing player to do it.

All in all, I'm not very high on Mathis. Given all of the liabilities inherent in having a sub-250 pound d-lineman, he has to be a pretty incredible pass rusher to make up for it. Mathis is good, but not great. He'd basically be an upgrade over Mark Anderson in our defense as a situational player. That's valuable, but is he better than Anderson at that role by enough to warrant a 3rd?

Hard to tell, IMO. He's a part of the reason why the Colts are terrible against the run every year, and he's spent virtually his entire career playing opposite Dwight Freeney, with big leads, in a dome. I think it's extremely tough to gauge how good he really is, and because of that, a 3rd seems pretty steep to me. Especially when Anderson has been playing that highly specialized role pretty competently to date.

Nah, I think Ellis goes to the bench. And we play Mathis-AH-VW-Carter.

Mathis is about 50 pounds lighter than Ellis. What makes you think that their roles are similar enough for one to replace the other? Mathis is pretty much the antithesis of a strong-side DE in a 4-3 under (which is primarily what Shaun Ellis was brought in to be). If he was going to be an every-down player, we'd either have to dramatically shift our alignments and gap philosophies up front, or he would have to replace Carter. In the latter case, we would immediately see a profound dropoff in run defense.

 

[mb6592]

I don't like the move. I don't think he'd have double digit sacks with the Pats. We can disagree, as clearly you'd like the move. Again, I'd pass.

Who cares about his sack total? This is about bringing pressure. More specifically, it's about bringing pressure in the playoffs.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

BB has always liked Mathis since 2003. I remember that cbs broadcast of Phil Simms and how BB was impressed w. Mathis's speed for a guy who was 235 lbs back then. I could see it but I would only trade a 3rd rd pick at best.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Many guys are missing the point here. How would BB use him?
Role player
NOT run D 3-4 DE
Situational change of pace pass rusher
4th QTR lead quencher