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Colts: robert mathis and the cap

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Krazy Koz, Jun 2, 2006.

  1. Krazy Koz

    Krazy Koz On the Game Day Roster

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    i know this is a fansite, but they put a lot of good info out there. check out the colts: http://www.fanball.com/fb/index.cfm

    "THE NEWS
    The Colts are trying to lock up pass-rushing specialist Robert Mathis to a multiyear contract before he hits the free agent market, which could happen following the 2006 season. "We're having ongoing talks about a contract extension," Mathis' agent told the Indianapolis Star.

    Our View
    Indy is pulling off some Olympic-level salary cap gymnastics already, but they appear willing to make room for Mathis alongside the already well-compensated Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, and Reggie Wayne. Oh, and they also need to lock up fellow pass rusher Dwight Freeney. And then they'll have about $3.50 for the rest of their roster."
     
  2. WhiZa

    WhiZa Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Ever since the Colts signed Payton to that big deal they've been in salary cap hell. They must have the lowest number of FA signings.
     
  3. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The fact that they just spent 3 mill on a kicker - when they had one of the most productive kickers (however jack-ass-ish) in the NFL - while simultaneously letting go impact defensive players like DT Triplette and LB Thornton is amazing to me.
     
  4. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Although the recent salary cap hike when the CBA was renegotiated helped, I really think the Colts are poor at managing the cap.

    The Pey-a-ton contract was dumb enough... overpaying for a kicker? While your team incurs further defensive losses as well as E.James?

    I think they are nuts.
     
  5. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey

    All of the above is true...yet...they remain consensus pick for Superbowl XLI
     
  6. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    I may have been dreaming, but I think I remember Miguel crunching the numbers to show that the Dolts aren't in as much cap hell as is popular to think around here. ...or at least that Paymetons contract is as bad to the cap as we all like to think. :)
     
  7. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    And i heard Freeney wants to be the highest paid defender..lol

    Thats gotta suck..imagine them going the way Titans had to..cutting Rolle, Mason, Carter and few other players just to get under
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 10, 2005
  8. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What's incredible to me is that there's so much talk about the Pats losing Givens, McGinest and AV - the conventional wisdom being "Wow, the former Dynasty takes more hits!" - while the Colts lose 2 important defensive starters and a player in Edgerrin James that is FAR more of a top-notch, in-his-prime IMPACT player than anyone N.E. lost.

    It's fine with me, I'm all for us being disrespected and underrated, but you'd think even ONE relatively hard-working hustler of a football writer might point this out - not a peep. Again, fine with me.
     
  9. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    This is a really, really good point, and I haven't seen many people mention it. I tend to forget what a rough offseason the Colts had. I really don't understand the media's love affair with Manning and the Colts. I agree with you completely - the Colts losses are devastating.

    Personally, I think the Pats have improved tremendously this offseason. Their future has never looked brighter. But go ahead and let the media pick the Colts, it'll just give Rodney the chance to say "no one ever believed in us!!" in 3 Games to Glory IV next season.
     
  10. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Now why did you have to bring that up. I was so enjoying the thought of the Colts being in cap hell. Then you come along with facts and spoil it for me.:mad:
     
  11. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I hear he wants to be the highest paid player period. I can't remember where, so take it for what it's worth.


    When I look at the Colt's offense I see something remarkably similar to "The Greatest Show on Turf" offenses of the Rams. Both had two very good recievers (Rams-Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt, Colts-Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne), and QB's who put up huge numbers (Rams-Kurt Warner, Colts-Peyton Manning), but the real heart and soul of the offense, the thing that makes the whole thing go, are the running backs (Rams-Marshall Faulk, Colts-Edgerrin James. When the Pats played the Rams in the SB, Warner had put up the second most passing yards in a season in league hisory, but they new that to stop the offense, they needed to stop Faulk. The Patriots made sure he never got across the line cleanly, and when he got the ball, he got whalloped. We all saw how the Rams offense changed for most of that game. To me, the Colts are similar. Manning's passing game thrives off of play action, which is a result of the rushing threat James was. In addition he was a very favorable option in the recieving game, similar to but less so than Faulk. In the 2004 regular season the Colt's PA was unstoppable, leading to Manning's record 49 TD's. Then in the playoff, one of the Patriots players--I can't remember who, but I think Rodney Harrison--said on the record that they had found something, some giveaway, in the Colt's PA. That, combined with a stout run defense against James and physical play against him when he was a reciever, led to the 20-3 embarrassment we all loved. When the threat of James was basically eliminated, the offense imploded. It was like they were a bunch of parts that were missing the thing which connected the together, James. This is why I don't understand how pundits can so easily shrug off the loss of him, and predict this to finally be the Colt's year.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2006
  12. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Well,you can fiddle all you want, but the contract (Mannnings) was for what 7 years and aobut 100 mil? That is about 15 mil a year. FIddle all they want, and have a low cap number to start, but eventually the money will have to be paid. 35 mil was guaranteed as a SB.
     
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Miguel doesn't like to acknowledge the existance of a cap hell. ;)

    Mannings contract becomes a problem in 2008 - he has one more $10 roster bonus against negligable salary due next season that can be converted to signing bonus and prorated (as they were able to do with this years $9M roster bonus once the new CBA was enacted). Trouble is all that prorated money is being pushed forward into years that include double digit salary and part of the initial $34.5M signing bonus. Unless they redo his deal (and that will mean an additional signing bonus and 5 years to prorate that into when he's 35+) they are facing down cap numbers in the $17-21M range starting in 2008. With a redo they will likely skate along until dead cap time, when Peyton's contract outlives his career. They face a similar scenario with Marvin.

    Right now they can probably squeeze Mathis in - they were about $7+M under at last check. Can't likely fit him and Freeney in though. Freeney's cap number could drop (it's $5M almost all salary this year) but if he wants to be the highest paid DE (or as Pastabelli reported last week the highest paid player period...LOL) that would be tough to pull off without boatloads of (you guessed it) pro-ratable bonus money .

    They could always franchise Freeney, but it will cost around $9M on the cap next season for a DE and if he really wants that kind of money long term he might demand a trade rather than risk playing for a year under a tag. They also will have Cato June to deal with since he is an RFA this year.

    A financial factor to keep in mind for them is the new stadium opening in 2008 will generate far more cash flow - it's been tough for Irsay to come up with all the bonus money he spends (in part to artificially keep his cap numbers low). He had to sell personal assets (a rock and roll memorabelia collection) to fund Peyton's $34.5M in 2004 but he got a $30M buyout on the lease of the RCA Dome this year as part of the deal to let the Indy taxpayers build him a new place - although that was quickly gobbled up by Manning and Harrison's roster bonuses ($19M) and Wayne's signing bonus ($12.5M). However, he won't have any windfall I can forsee in 2007, and the cap will likely only go up closer to the usual 5-6%. So if Freeney is really looking for a QB-esque deal the Colts may have neither the cash or the cap to accommodate him. Remember they also added Corey Simon last season and his deal averages $6M - and had an $8M option for 2006 which I can only assume they exercised (...and likely converted and pro rated).

    Adam actually saved them over a million this year compared to their cap hit for Vanderjerk last season, not to mention the cost of the dedicated KO specialist they carried because Vandy couldn't multi-task. :D

    Still all these chickens will come home to roost eventually, and if the Colts should fall off appreciable, even in their now accustomed regular season dominance, it could effect ticket sales for the 2008 grand opening of the new Lubradome to boot.
     
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Indy's current cap hell is a figment of fans' imagination and future cap he$$ is merely a hope.

    There have hundreds of posts since Manning's contract was signed indicating that the colts would not be able sign any more of their high level players. And every time they sign one, posters here think they muct be cheating. Miguel chimes in each time and indicates that the colts' cap position is under control. Posters choose to believe what they choose to believe.

    The Colts have made many, many key signings since signing Manning. They continue to do so. And now, they are trying to extend Mathis. They can't keep everyone, and there are decisions to be made, but they are not in cap he$$.

    If it makes people feel better, we can all say the colts are in cap hell because they chose not to pay Edge $8M a year.

    The Colts have a different cap phisosopthy than we do. The may more to their top 10-15 players and less to their next 20. That does not constitute cap he$$.
     
  15. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    The Colts are under the cap by $9 million. How is that cap hell?? Since they signed Manning to his contract, they have signed Harrison, Wayne, Adam, Simon, and Stokley to long-term deals. They are now looking to tie up Mathis and Freeney.

    Those of you who keep on repeating the cap hell mantra, please tell us how the Colts are looking cap-wise for the 2007/2008/2009 seasons.
     
  16. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I have yet to be shown that the Colts are in cap hell. Saying that the Colts are in cap hell does not mean that they are in actual cap hell.
     
  17. Isaac

    Isaac Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I believe that through this year the Patriots will have paid off much more of Brady's contract than Manning's, even though it is smaller overall---front-loaded vs. back-loaded. I love that, Brady's price will go down over time while Manning's skyrockets (at least until Brady's deal is up).
     
  18. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Please tell us when.
     
  19. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    I think we can all agree this team's window of opportunity is closing real fast,imo it has possibly closed with the departure of E.James. This team reminds me of the 90's Cowboys,but with no championships to show for it. But instead of building around a QB,RB and WR,they chose a QB and 2 WR's which was another bad decision.

    Peyton is only going to be able renogiate his contract so many times to free up room for the other players and if Harrison and Wayne both restructure it's only a matter of time before that team crumbles into absolute oblivion. They will feel the effects long after those players are gone. I see this team having a very 49er like look. Only it will be the 49ers of the 21st century.

    I give them 1 maybe 2 more shots if all the pieces fall perfectly in place which we know doesn't always happen.
     
  20. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I agree the window has closed, and have been predicting a crash.. A one dimensional (All Offensne) team which had no Defense in the first place then lost two of its best defenders. Now the Pats lost the services of Dillon last year and we saw what happened to outr running game. But I guarantee that James wil not get a Colt carry this season, and like last year's Pats there is no other franchise back around.

    Last year the Colts dumped their starting guards in order to get cheaper. This year they are talking about replacing one or two of the replacements. And Marvin Harrison is 35, Tarik Glenn is 31 and there is no depth anywhere except WR.

    Name the Colts first backup at:
    RB rookie Addai ?
    WR Stokely Ok
    TE Fletcher who?
    QB Sorgi ???? who
    OL Vollers who ??

    DE Thomas ?? who
    DT Reagor Ok
    Starting LB Gilberrt ?? who
    LB ?? who
    S Jackson Ok
    CB Hayden who ??

    Seven of nine positions the firsrt backup is an unknown scrub or UDFA.

    This year the bottom fall out on the Colts.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2006

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