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Colts losing Howard Mudd to retirement

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Deus Irae, May 5, 2009.

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  1. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Indianapolis Colts offensive line coach Howard Mudd plans to retire immediately - ESPN

    I'd guess that it's possible that the O.C. (Moore) could join him. He had to be talked out of leaving even before the pension change happened. Things could get a bit more interesting in Colts land.
  2. ALP

    ALP Rookie

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    whos will indy hire to replace this HOFer signal spy?
  3. OhExaulted1

    OhExaulted1 Rookie

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    Sorry kids, Mangini's spoken for. I'm sure that dooche Polian will come up with another super-slueth, though.
  4. wdkantro2

    wdkantro2 Rookie

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    The Colts were always very fortunate to keep their entire staff intact year after year. Let's see how they like the turnover that the Pats have had numerous times!
  5. Fencer

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    I hope Dante doesn't do the same thing.

    Presumably, Kraft will pay him well enough not to.
  6. BradyFTW!

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    I think this'll be a bigger hit for the Colts than most people will initially realize.
  7. PatsWickedPissah

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    Word up is that Mudd still suffers lingering injuries from post AFCCG 2005 when Peyton threw the OL under the bus.
  8. Rob0729

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    Considering the problems the Colts had with their o-line last year with all the new pieces, a switch of coach this late in the game might be a big blow.
  9. cavtroop

    cavtroop Rookie

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    LOL, almost spit my coffee all over my keyboard, good one :)
  10. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Colts are quickly dropping into mediocrity.
    Lost their coach, O-line coach, maybe their O-coordinator soon too.
    Dungy won't be there to patch up the defense anymore.

    They won a few games by sheer luck last year. This year they won't be as lucky.
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mudd sounds like just the tip of the iceberg. If I'm following those pension rule changes correctly, the NFL has suddenly made it so that every staffer who hits age 65 has to immediately head for the hills, or risk their family's long-term financial security. That's a recipe for absolute turmoil.
  12. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative Rookie

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    Yes, and perhaps an indication that the league will provide some "clarification" of the rules, or a rewrite, that will keep this from happening. But they will still try and keep the coaches from turning 75, taking the lump sum, and then returning as a consultant.
  13. MoLewisrocks

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    The vote was to allow individual teams to opt out. A couple apparently did immediately. We have no idea who they are beyond Indy. Perhaps Kraft isn't intending to.
  14. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I interpreted the last line to mean that the new rules prevented this type of double dipping and that this could be done previously, but not any longer.

  15. Rob0729

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    Do agree that the Colts could easily been 9-7 or 8-8 last year if not for a few breaks. At least two of the games were results of fumbles returned for TDs which are flukey. Minnesota would have won if Childress didn't have Tavarous Jackson run the same bootleg play over and over again after Adrian Peterson went down.
  16. workhorse

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    Man, I hear this every year.

    I like Mudd. He has done a good job of coaching up some diamonds in the rough. But I really don't think an O-line coach leaving is the straw that broke the camel's back.

    There are several things that will likely have a greater impact than Mudd deciding to stay or retire. Peyton is healthy this year and will be able to participate in training camp and the preseason. Jeff Saturday is healthy. They get starting cornerback Marlin Jackson back. They have 5 300+ lbs DTs vs 1 last season.
  17. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Two things, though:

    1.) The Colts were clearly not a top team last year, for the first time in a while, and that was true even when Manning's knee looked healthy.

    2.) Mudd may not be the only one leaving. You could conceivably lose your O.C., too.
  18. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    The Colts won 12 games last year, including 9 in a row.

    Tom Moore leaving wouldn't change a whole lot. Peyton calls the plays and they have been running the same offense for years. Very few wrinkles have been added in the last 5 years.
  19. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Winning games doesn't necessarily mean you're a great team, especially when you're getting the wins gift wrapped the way the Colts were last year. This is not intended as a knock on the Colts, by the way, because one could point to the Patriots of last year and come up with a solid, logical argument that paints that team as a paper tiger that couldn't play with the big boys despite winning 11 games.
  20. Palm Beach Pats Fan

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    And yet almost nobody was surprised when they lost to San Diego, since the Colts won about 5 games in which they were physically dominated on both lines of scrimmage and the opposing team did multiple stupid/freaky things to hand over the game. Plus in the playoffs you've got the QB with the 7-8 career record. The Caldwell collapse is the new One and Dungy, if they even make it that far, with a coach with a career record of 26-63 as a head coach.
    Last edited: May 6, 2009
  21. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    That San Diego game was the single greatest game ever by a punter.

    The Colts addressed their defensive line by adding some serious beef.

    Belichick was 36-44 as a head coach when he took over the Pats.
  22. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan Rookie

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    So? Mike Krzyzewski was 38-47 in his first 3 years at Duke. Sometimes it takes awhile to turn things around. In Cleveland's case, crappy ownership that abandoned their fans ruined everything. Caldwell had 8 years to win at Wake Forest and was 26-63. That is a far cry from being near 0.500.
  23. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The last time the Browns won more than 10 games in a season was back in 1994. That was year 4 under Belichick. He'd led the team to back-to-back 7-9 seasons prior to that, and a 6 win season in his rookie year with the team coming off of a 3 win season.

    The following year, Modell announced that he was moving the team to Baltimore and all hell broke loose. I, for one, am very glad that Modell was an idiot. It helped to shape BB into the coach he is today, and Patriots fans are 3 Super Bowl victory celebrations richer as a result.
  24. MoLewisrocks

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    It's cumulative workhorse. Dungy wasn't handpicked by Polian because he was the flavor of the month in HC'ing. He was this unique individual who had a pretty firm mastery of a defense that didn't require some of the most expensive pieces in the game, he was a teacher, he was a facilitator and mentor, he had both cache and the kind of disposition and demeanor needed to keep a top heavy offensive team like the colts from fracturing, even absent his own coaching staff, and he had the capacity to get a talent like Manning to take a step back and reign in his own instincts in favor of allowing a team to form an identity around him and not just through him.

    Losing him along with Harrrison, Mudd, possibly Moore while replacing him with a home grown rookie HC who seems oddly focused on tweeking the Dungy defense is a lot. I think that is why Polian took the RB in the first. Less new faces in Manning portion of the offense, hope the existing players can replicate what they've already been taught, focus on running the ball better just in case, pray Tennessee takes a step back and neither Jaxonville or Houston finally click. Dungy never had much to do with that offense beyond morally supporting it and suggesting it try to be more and balanced. Somebody has to run the practices and coach up youngsters and critique the veteran players and make decisions on the roster, and broker coaching compromises and deal with the media fallout...and that isn't Peyton's place, and if it defacto became it in the absence of Dungy, Mudd and Moore, the backlash could potentially be nasty.

    Polian also already has a lot on his plate what with the overall economy, problems with the stadium, an impending uncapped year, potential labor unrest and Peyton's contract running out in 2010 (or 2012 if he doesn't opt to void which would be unusual for a Condon client). Coming off the kind of gift wrapped 12 win season you guys managed to pull off last year, this could be finally be the long anticipated beginning of the end of the Manning era Colts.

    We got some issues looming too, as most teams do, but Bill has dealt with those frequently over the last decade here. Won his first Superbowl after losing his #1 drafted franchise QB in week 2, won 2 more and got to a third with his 6th round replacement, and even managed to win 11 games after losing Brady for an entire season in the first quarter of last season. He has a stronger base or overall foundation (part of which is rooted in the system) to work with than Polian has had in Indy. You guys have always pointed to that when it suits you, as well as acknowledging that Manning is the franchise in Indy. Only Manning has always required a cumbersome support system. Polian has always had a vision of what will win, but he's also not capable of successfully implementing it himself as a GM, he's needed a HC and coaching staff to do that, and he has more stringent financial limits to work with in assembling all of the above due to market size and an ownership not nearly as financially strong and savvy as the Krafts.

    It may not be a disastrous season in Indy, but don't make it sound like it doesn't have that potential written all over it...
  25. workhorse

    workhorse Rookie

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    Mo, there is some validity to what you say, but I'm not sure what the weight of it will be. The reason that Polian took Brown is he was the highest rated player on their board. That's always been Polian's way. Couple with that he likely had the Ed Johnson re-signing in his back pocket and knew addressing the DT spot wasn't as pressing.

    There is plenty of reason for optimism in Coltsland with all those coming into the season healthy (mainly Peyton and Saturday) and Polian addressing the biggest problem area on the team last year, the defensive line with some serious size.

    There will probably be some bumps in the road with the departure of Dungy, but if Polian think Caldwell is the right man for the job, then so do I.
  26. coltsfan

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    Yeah, we're going to have a tough time surviving all of those 40 yard rushing performances in the playoffs.
  27. coltsfan

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    Yeah, we're simply doomed. I'm sure Peyton Manning, Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and Anthony Gonzalez aren't going to win us games anymore.

    Unless you expect Peyton Manning to have two knee surgeries again, then last year is last year.
  28. coltsfan

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    It'll help that we actually have legit DTs this year. What would you expect to happen against Adrian Peterson with Keyunta Dawson and Eric Foster as your starting DTs? And we also now have a better LB corps with hopefully Keiaho on the bench.

    And what would you expect to happen with Peyton Manning playing on one leg behind an OL missing 4 of 5 starters, going against Jared Allen and Kevin Williams in the Metrodome? That won't happen again this year as well, hopefully.
  29. coltsfan

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    We won 8 or 9 in a row to finish the season. So yes, once Manning got healthy and we made some other tweaks, we were a top team. We beat PIT in PIT, for example. We would have beat SD in SD twice in the same year had Mudd's OL not done so pathetically in short yardage situations in that game.
  30. TriplecHamp

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    You were a top team but you had a lot of holes. That loss was not Mudd's fault, San Diego always plays you tough and you got out played. Teams are going to have a field day running on your D. Peyton Manning is Peyton Manning so you should win games the way your team is built to win games...With the offense.
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