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College Applicants hide their ethnic background to avoid admission Discrimination

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Really a disgrace, kids being discriminated against for working to hard in school and being part of an ethnic minority.

    Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check 'Asian' - Yahoo! News


  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it's always going to be a problem as long as we recognize the academic value of integrating people from different communities and cultures, and as long as we don't invest significantly more in our public schools.

    Is it any surprise that's there's a correlation between income and the ability to get into a good college:

    http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0691.pdf
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is just a question so don't all you loons start scratching yourselves and demanding infractions,

    "are there any races on earth more intelligent then other races"

    Oh Jesus, here it comes.....
  4. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    and yet again, harry tries to hijack a thread and draw attention to himself

    btw, 13, do you think it's also a disgrace that some white students are favored in admissions because their parents went to a particular school, or because they can play a sport?

    Like it or not, there are legitimate reasons for schools to want various types of diversity, and also to look at various measures of achievement and aptitude rather than only looking at test scores.
  5. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are certainly individuals that are more and less intelligent than other individuals.

    Harry, do you process your world as an individual, or as one representative of a certain race?

    PFnV
  6. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    A kid that scores a 1550 should have a better shot at admission than the kid that scores 1410 or 1100.

    is it any wonder some people would have a problem with that?
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Don't you think there's broad value in making sure that an academic environment is well integrated? Also, don't you think there are other qualities to academics than grades? Do you think the Asian student who scores 1550 is necessarily a better student than the black person who scores 1100? Who do you think would be the better teacher, doctor, social worker, police officer, EMT, in the black community, the Asian or the black person? I think schools have to consider more than just grades, since kids grow up in all sorts of environments and our nation has all sorts of needs.
  8. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    Of course there are other factors but are they even considered or do the scores trump them? The suggestion is even a lower score automatically moves the black and white candidates up the latter over Asians without regard to any other qualities or propensities. I've heard all the arguments that the tests are white biased but I've never heard that they are Asian biased and that Asians have had a privilege that has to be evened out to allow more black and white college admissions.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  9. patsfan13

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    Yes. Student to Academic institutions should be admitted on the basis of merit. I prefer a meritocracy.

    Some kids work a lot harder than others.

    Props to CalTech for being the outstanding Institution it is.

    I knew a couple of people who escaped from Viet Nam in the 70's, Boat People. They came here with nothing, but understood the dead end that communism was and the opportunity America represented. The parents came over here with a grade school education, they worked as janitors and got themselves a technical degree. They worked different shifts at different companies so the no working parent could tutor kids after they cam home from school. Their kids excelled in school. They worked HARDER than the other kids.

    They shouldn't be penalized for working hard to excel.
  10. Real World

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    I don't think any university should ask about race. Interesting how the same people who think a business owner shouldn't be able to hire whomever it is they want to, or thinks is best for his business, feel that discrimination by universities is perfectly ok.
  11. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    There are more aspects to "merit" than just test scores.


    Obviously CalTech is an outstanding institution.

    So are myriad institutions that apparently don't conform to your views.


    Sad that the only people you are aware of that work hard are foreigners.

    Are you sure they immigrated legally? Because if they didn't, many Americans would hate them, despite their desire to escape communism and work to better the prospects for their families.


    who's being penalized for working hard?
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with you. I hope it's more than that, but chances are the schools take into account essays, interviews, clubs and teams the student belonged to in high school, and well as the person's individual circumstances.
  13. patsfan13

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    Such as?




    Most don't approach CalTech.



    I know of others that work hard but not to that extent, or do you just believe Asians are genetically superior?



    Yes I am. That is how one of the spouses were able to work doing electronics for a defense contractor, which required a background check thanks for asking.





    Kids with perfect SAT scores being passed over for admissions to the University of their choice for students with 25-30 percent scores when the decision is based on race. That is racism and is wrong.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You don't think a university should ask about race, but it's okay for a business to do that?
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  15. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    I don't think the race of a prospective student is any business of a university that's tasked with the job of educating people. What difference would their race make? I guess if it's a private university, then sure. If they're running the show without taxpayer funds, then it's their show to run. Want all women, all men, only redheads, etc. go for it. It's private afterall. Public, then MYOB.
  16. patsfan13

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    He is pointing out the inconsistency in the law and the reactions of those who claim to oppose racism.
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And I'm pointing out his own inconsistency. Perhaps the reason for that inconsistency is that universities and private businesses have fundamentally different aims.
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I understand. Obviously, you have to have a reason for your inconsistency. My reason for my inconsistency is that racism is wrong so no one should discriminate, but a university has the obligation to consider other factors besides grades. For instance, it's valuable to have black doctors in black communities since they will have a better understanding of black culture and behaviors. If blacks, for whatever reason, tend to have lower grades, that does not mean there should be no black doctors, it means that medical schools need to look beyond just grades. I think you've said that you're 2nd generation Italian. I'll bet that even if my grades are ten times better than yours, you'd be more effective at working with people of Italian descent than I would be.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  19. patsfan13

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    So if we distill it,


    Racism by left wing academics seeking diversity admitting unqualified students is good.

    Racism by evil capitalist is bad.
  20. Real World

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    Excuse me? My inconsistency? Where am I being inconsitent?

    Wow, you have no idea how hypocritical you sound. So, it's ok for schools to discriminate because it's important to have black doctors in black communites. Is it ok to have white workers in white communities then?

    So it doesn't matter if a person isn't really qualified to be a doctor, so long as he's black, brown, green, a redhead, etc. he should be allowed to be one. Who cares if people die as a result from improper care, we'd have red headed doctors dammit, to care for red headed people! :bricks:


    This is where the hypocracy of liberals like Patters makes me laugh.
  21. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So much for the goal of a color blind society.


    Some animals are more equal than others.
  22. Harry Boy

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    Is there any Race of people in the world that are considerd more inteligent than other races.

    why do applications for anything anywhere in america ask for your race

    it's pretty hard for a liberal to accept the fact that human beings are not all alike, they speak different and they look different liberals try to make believe they don't.

    i would really like to see more pawnee american indians on tv especially in commercials.

    :bricks:
    love is in the air we breath
    god willing
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  23. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    grades, for starters
    scores on tests other than SATs
    advanced coursework
    leadership roles / activities
    jobs outside the classroom
    artistic abilities
    musical ability
    athletic ability


    Yes, of course. I should have said many, not myriad.

    "So are many institutions that apparently don't conform to your views."


    Are the Asians you know genetically superior?

    Seems unlikely, no?

    As I said, sad that the only people you are aware of that work hard are foreigners.


    One spouse meant that all immigrated here legally?

    If you were to learn that some of them didn't come here legally, would you hate them like other illegal immigrants, even though right now you have such admiration for their work ethic and achievements?


    Now you're saying it's racism. Before you were saying they were penalized for working hard -- that's what I asked you about.

    Make up your mind, and then we can continue discussing it.
  24. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    But why can't a private business do the same?

    Let's say I know that my customers are mostly "good ole boys" -- why can't I hire just white salesmen who hunt, golf and drink and pretty young women for customer service and receptionists?
  25. DarrylS

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    This hinges on something that was previously discussed, that if a University receives federal funds you have certain responsibilities...
  26. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think there are many reasons: Opening the door to discrimination allows communities to force people out of their homes and jobs; is degrading; promotes further bigotry (by creating more homogeneous communities); puts poorer races, etc. at a disadvantage (since they don't have as many opportunities to discriminate); could open the door for other kinds of discrimination, such as pay, sexual harassment, and promotion policies; will almost certainly lead to social unrest as it has in the past, will make it even harder for minorities to integrate into communities and by doing so educate others.

    Neither businesses nor academic institution should be allowed to discriminate, but nor should academic institutions confine the only criteria for admission to test scores.
  27. Harry Boy

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    Liberals don't like questions but I'm going to ask another one that probably won't get answered,
    "where did this age old saying come from"
    BIRDS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER

    Humans do it with "their neighborhoods" it must be the way We Animals were created.

    :confused::confused::confused:
  28. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I agree, patters, but I do think the two need to be looked at in similar fashion, and the fact is they aren't. For example, a business can't explicitly look at criteria such as gender or race for most positions, even though it might be a legitimate thing to look at for a given job, and even though it's ok in cases of affirmative action.

    (I'm not saying businesses don't look at those things -- they without question do. But when they do so, they're engaging in an illegal activity.)
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2011
  29. Harry Boy

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    Another Question:
    When minorities commit an act of Racism why don't Liberals consider it "Racism"
    Why do they try to find excuses for it..................:confused:
  30. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Correlation does not imply causation.

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