Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 rank

[ScottieC]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

Just for fun and out of curiosity, I went back to 1986 and picked 4 teams to look at, the Cowboys, The Pats, the Steelers and the Broncos. Each have made the Playoffs 12 times since 1986. The Pats won 3 superbowls, the Cowboys 3, the Broncos 2 and the Steelers 1. Pats played in 6, Cowboys 3, Broncos 5, Steelers 2.

Regular season over the same time period. Pats went 192-159. Cowboys went 181-170. Steelers went 203-147-1, and the Broncos went 211-139.

Interesting stuff. I would do the Colts, Packers, Rams, Bills, Giants, and Niners over the same time period but people in my office are watching me crunch NFL numbers and are muttering under their breath LOL!

Some other interesting facts that we all already know, that obviously only warranted a 12 place finish, is our NFL record consecutive play off win record, Consecutive games won record, consecutive regular season wins (Still going) and the emergence of the Greatest QB to ever play the game.

But that's ok. I'm embracing the Hate in 2008.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

Baltimore/Indy Colts should be ahead of the Dolphins. Four titles and over .500 for all those years. Unitas > Marino.

The Browns pretty much invented modern football. Got to give props for that dominanace though it was before our time.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

Baltimore/Indy Colts should be ahead of the Dolphins. Four titles and over .500 for all those years. Unitas > Marino.

The Browns pretty much invented modern football. Got to give props for that dominanace though it was before our time.

The more I look at it the more I think the Bills got shafted. They were a really good team there for a while. the Seahawks? Honestly, before Holgrem got there they had one guy worth mentioning over the years. And the whole changing conference thing should be a mark against them too. LOL.

Broncos are a forgotten sister I think, they really have been a Solid franchise over the years, with SB appearances in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

The Browns get props for having the greatest player to ever play the game put on their uniform. Jim Brown. But as a Franchise since the 60s they haven't done a thing. Heck the Bengals have been to 2 Superbowls and if they didn't have to play the Montana lead 49ers twice, who knows what could have happened.

 

[Sting]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

Thanks this is a post to print and study for a few days. Having been in the opening seat back in 1960 and following the team since then, I agree with the position for the Pats.

 

[Gumby]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

The more I look at it the more I think the Bills got shafted. They were a really good team there for a while.

Some of you guys complaining on behalf of the bills need to go back to the front of the article and re-read below. Is there anything more miserable than to say you went to FOUR STRAIGHT SUPERBOWLS and came away with BUMPKUS?????

Plus when your franchise is synonymous with the two words "WIDE RIGHT"..... what more miserable thought could you have.

This Misery-to-Joy system also allows us to compare franchises of various ages. Some teams have beenn around since 1920. Other teams are barely a decade old. But, by measuring each team by the relative misery-to-joy it has provided its fans, the age is almost irrelevant. A 10-year-old team that won two titles (purely as an example, as no such team exists) would rate incredibly high on the list. An 88-year-old team that won two titles would probably have a lot of 'splaining to do for those other 86 seasons.

On another note: Anybody else notice that the ONLY TEAM WITHOUT an "CLAIM TO FAME" is the Dolts....

I am sure is just an oversight and not that CHFF are Pats fans and digging at the Colts or anything; hmmm.

 

[kolbitr]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

Fascinating article and thread, especially for all those of us who love history almost as much as our own teams. I also need time to consider the arguments made, and would welcome comments from other teams' fans--the presence of Dino here is much-welcomed, especially as representing one of the all-time great franchises--hey, gotta give them their due.

I will say that my immediate reaction to the list is that the Seahawks seem too high...despite their excellent years in the 80s, with Largent, Easler, Krieg, Warner, etc. I enjoyed watching those teams very much. The Bills, OTOH, were superb for a single period of time in the 90s, yet still came away with an empty feeling. Their OJ teams were pretty bad, despite his running, and they were mediocre in the 80s when the Grogan-Eason Patriots were having some good years.

 

[Dr Pain]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

I don't see the Dolphins at 10 ahead of the Colts. I see the Colts at 10, Patriots at 11 (for now)

 

[ALP]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

is it just football franchises? if so, th epats are real low if not, i would still say they should be about 8

how many teams in the NFL did the 3 in 4 thing? certainly not 11 others, so in that regard, in the most important regard of all (championships) the pats would be a little low

 

[italian pat patriot]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

Pats have had some clunker teams, but had some talented teams in the mid 70's, were in the Super Bowl in 1986, and again in 1996, and have dominated this current decade, playing in 4 Super Bowls, and winning 3 of them. I put them at #10, with the Raiders and Cleveland sliding behind them.

well said; i agree with you

 

[PATRIOT64]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

is it just football franchises? if so, th epats are real low if not, i would still say they should be about 8

how many teams in the NFL did the 3 in 4 thing? certainly not 11 others, so in that regard, in the most important regard of all (championships) the pats would be a little low

The OVERALL premise is that the Patriots in the 80s and 90s decades had one of the worst OVERALL records in all of football - Thats why they are as low as they are,It takes quite a catching up to do to move into the top spot,NE would probably have to go on to win another 5 or 10 super bowls in the next 20 years to be the #1 franchise.

 

[PromisedLand]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

A good job by CHHF as usual. The only nit I have to pick is that I think they rated ancient history too highly - see exhibit A: Browns, Cleveland and exhibit B: Colts, Indy or should I say Baltimore?

 

[ALP]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

The OVERALL premise is that the Patriots in the 80s and 90s decades had one of the worst OVERALL records in all of football - Thats why they are as low as they are,It takes quite a catching up to do to move into the top spot,NE would probably have to go on to win another 5 or 10 super bowls in the next 20 years to be the #1 franchise.

well then the OVERALL premise is bad

btw, Tom Brady is the best QB to ever play football, not bart starr

who had a destiny when everyone said it was impossible in a time when the NFL was trying to bring every team to an equal standing?

who won 3 out of 4, and then went to two other playoffs, and about won 5 of 7???

the champoinship years of the packers before the NFL and before anything was regulated, shoudlnt even count

 

[PATRIOT64]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

well then the OVERALL premise is bad

btw, Tom Brady is the best QB to ever play football, not bart starr

who had a destiny when everyone said it was impossible in a time when the NFL was trying to bring every team to an equal standing?

who won 3 out of 4, and then went to two other playoffs, and about won 5 of 7???

the champoinship years of the packers before the NFL and before anything was regulated, shoudlnt even count

The Patriots were ranked #12 simply because they went though a continuous 4 or 5 years of pure lousy pathetic football during the 80s/90s and then again in the late 90s - It is what it is.

Obviously you must have been wetting your diapers those years or maybe not even that if you can't go back that far to understand logic.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

well then the OVERALL premise is bad

btw, Tom Brady is the best QB to ever play football, not bart starr

who had a destiny when everyone said it was impossible in a time when the NFL was trying to bring every team to an equal standing?

who won 3 out of 4, and then went to two other playoffs, and about won 5 of 7???

the champoinship years of the packers before the NFL and before anything was regulated, shoudlnt even count

What Fun!

Tom Brady is a great quarterback, but until his body of work is complete, I wouldn't consider him the greatest to ever play football. I'm pretty sure there is another thread dedicated to this topic on this same Forum. Its called "where do you rank Tom Brady now" or something like that. Anyway, you should give that thread a really long read, enjoy it, and look at the arguements for and against ranking Tom at "the best ever" at this point in his career.

Dallas won 3 out of 4. Total 5 in their Franchise, been to 8 and lost two to the greatest Dynasty of all time the Steelers of the 70s. If not for the Steelers winning both those games, the Cowboys would be #1 on this list with a total of 7 SB titles. That would be wow. I hate them so I'm glad we won

The Trophy every team is playing to win is called The Lombardi Trophy. There is a reason the Packers are #1 on the list. They won the title with Vince as their coach in 61, 62, 65, and the SBs in 66 and 67. That's a pretty dominating run. The Packers get the nod. Its out of respect and love of the sport itself, and the National Football League more than anything else.

 

[ScottieC]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

What Fun!

Tom Brady is a great quarterback, but until his body of work is complete, I wouldn't consider him the greatest to ever play football. I'm pretty sure there is another thread dedicated to this topic on this same Forum. Its called "where do you rank Tom Brady now" or something like that. Anyway, you should give that thread a really long read, enjoy it, and look at the arguements for and against ranking Tom at "the best ever" at this point in his career.

Dallas won 3 out of 4. Total 5 in their Franchise, been to 8 and lost two to the greatest Dynasty of all time the Steelers of the 70s. If not for the Steelers winning both those games, the Cowboys would be #1 on this list with a total of 7 SB titles. That would be wow. I hate them so I'm glad we won

The Trophy every team is playing to win is called The Lombardi Trophy. There is a reason the Packers are #1 on the list. They won the title with Vince as their coach in 61, 62, 65, and the SBs in 66 and 67. That's a pretty dominating run. The Packers get the nod. Its out of respect and love of the sport itself, and the National Football League more than anything else.

Well, Lets see...Tommy - The Greatest QB of all time?

Ok, I'll bite.

3 Super Bowl Championships
2 Super Bowl MVP's
Owns NFL Single Season TD record
MVP of the League 2007
4 Pro Bowls
Longest Win streak in NFL History
2nd Longest win streak in NFL Hisory
Longest Regular Season win streak in NFL History
Quickest to 100 wins in NFL history
Only QB to win 18 games in a row in a single season
Perfect regular season 2007
2x All Pro Selection
Owns NFL record for most consectutive Post Season wins (10)
Highest Completion % in a game - NFL History
Most Completions in a Super Bowl
Most Completions in Super Bowls Career
AP Male Athlete of the year 2007

..............Insert more here:

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

Well, Lets see...Tommy - The Greatest QB of all time?

Ok, I'll bite.

3 Super Bowl Championships
2 Super Bowl MVP's
Owns NFL Single Season TD record
MVP of the League 2007
4 Pro Bowls
Longest Win streak in NFL History
2nd Longest win streak in NFL Hisory
Longest Regular Season win streak in NFL History
Quickest to 100 wins in NFL history
Only QB to win 18 games in a row in a single season
Perfect regular season 2007
2x All Pro Selection
Owns NFL record for most consectutive Post Season wins (10)
Highest Completion % in a game - NFL History
Most Completions in a Super Bowl
Most Completions in Super Bowls Career
AP Male Athlete of the year 2007

..............Insert more here:

Total thread steal my man. But if you insist.

Most Seasons Leading the League in Passing:
6 for an old timer with the Skins named Sammy Baugh
6 for Steve Young.
4 for Len Dawson, Roger Staubach and Ken Anderson.

Highest Passer Rating in Career:
Steve Young, Payton Manning, Kurt Warner

Highest Rookie Season Passer rating
Ben Roethlisberger, Dan Marino, Greg Cook

Attempts: Most seasons leading the League
Marino

Most attempts in a career:
Favre, Marino, Elway

Most attempts in a Season, Bledsoe, Moon, Brees

Most seasons leading the league in completions. Marino

Most Completed in a career, Favre, Marino, Elway

Most yards career, Favre, Marion, Elway

Most games with 400+ yards, Marino with 13
Montana, Moon, Payton Manning with 7.

Most 300 yard games, Marino with 63
Favre with 55, Dan Fouts with 51

Most tds in a career, Favre, 442, Marino 420, Tarkenton 342

Most in a Single Season. Brady 50, Manning 49, Marino 48.

Seriously...All day Long...

enjoy the read, like I said, when Tom's career is over, we can begin to put him into the discussion.

http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/passing

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

The Patriots were ranked #12 simply because they went though a continuous 4 or 5 years of pure lousy pathetic football during the 80s/90s and then again in the late 90s - It is what it is.

Obviously you must have been wetting your diapers those years or maybe not even that if you can't go back that far to understand logic.

Late 90s they made the SB in 96, and the playoffs in 97 and 98 one of those years the starting QB was not there for the playoff game. SO by late 90s you mean 99.

We are ranked #12 because there are franchise with a better history not because we had a few to many bad seasons. I could put them a few notches higher but I don't think there is any slightr in where they were placed.

 

[ScottieC]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

Total thread steal my man. But if you insist.

Most Seasons Leading the League in Passing:
6 for an old timer with the Skins named Sammy Baugh
6 for Steve Young.
4 for Len Dawson, Roger Staubach and Ken Anderson.

Highest Passer Rating in Career:
Steve Young, Payton Manning, Kurt Warner

Highest Rookie Season Passer rating
Ben Roethlisberger, Dan Marino, Greg Cook

Attempts: Most seasons leading the League
Marino

Most attempts in a career:
Favre, Marino, Elway

Most attempts in a Season, Bledsoe, Moon, Brees

Most seasons leading the league in completions. Marino

Most Completed in a career, Favre, Marino, Elway

Most yards career, Favre, Marion, Elway

Most games with 400+ yards, Marino with 13
Montana, Moon, Payton Manning with 7.

Most 300 yard games, Marino with 63
Favre with 55, Dan Fouts with 51

Most tds in a career, Favre, 442, Marino 420, Tarkenton 342

Most in a Single Season. Brady 50, Manning 49, Marino 48.

Seriously...All day Long...

enjoy the read, like I said, when Tom's career is over, we can begin to put him into the discussion.

http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/indiv/passing

Yea, that's a fun read - I'm not sure what that post is about, but mine was all Brady. You got a whole bunch of folks listed there - Most of them are retired and gone and Brady's still lighting it up on Sundays.

However, I would agree that you would have to quote the record book and reference multiple HOF passers to try and find someone that compares to Brady.

 

[Dino 6 Rings]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

Yea, that's a fun read - I'm not sure what that post is about, but mine was all Brady. You got a whole bunch of folks listed there - Most of them are retired and gone and Brady's still lighting it up on Sundays.

However, I would agree that you would have to quote the record book and reference multiple HOF passers to try and find someone that compares to Brady.

I was referring to the "best ever" comment. To call a QB the best ever you must evaluate all the other greats that have played the game and look at records set and who set them. Once Brady retires, we can go back, look at his entire body of work and compare it to some of the legends of the game.

As for who is the best QB in the league this season. It is Brady. I had him second behind Favre on my greatest active QBs list, simply because Favre has set legendary records already. Now that Brett has retired, Brady is clearly the best QB in the game today. I would have Payton at 2, and Big Ben at 3. With Hasselbeck on the list at 4 with McNabb and Palmer at 5 and 6. Romo needs to win a playoff game before he moves up any in my opinion. Eli has earned a spot at 7 in my eyes winning the biggest game of his life.

Anyway, its a fun debate and could go on for pages.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Cold Hard Football Facts ranks Patriots overall history of the franchise at #12 r

I was referring to the "best ever" comment. To call a QB the best ever you must evaluate all the other greats that have played the game and look at records set and who set them. Once Brady retires, we can go back, look at his entire body of work and compare it to some of the legends of the game.

As for who is the best QB in the league this season. It is Brady. I had him second behind Favre on my greatest active QBs list, simply because Favre has set legendary records already. Now that Brett has retired, Brady is clearly the best QB in the game today. I would have Payton at 2, and Big Ben at 3. With Hasselbeck on the list at 4 with McNabb and Palmer at 5 and 6. Romo needs to win a playoff game before he moves up any in my opinion. Eli has earned a spot at 7 in my eyes winning the biggest game of his life.

Anyway, its a fun debate and could go on for pages.

I think your logic was a little flawed here " simply because Favre has set legendary records already" ....... maybe what you should of said or meant to say was that he was alot closer to having a full body of work because you could have said the same thing about Brady even when Farve was in the league and even before the 50 TDs last year. Brady had already set legendary SB records and had clearly passed Farve I would say there are only 2 or 3 QBs in the history of the NFL that he hasn't passed yet and Farve never passed them.


Side Note: I do think it is not a bad idea to wait until the body of work is complete before trying to judge this argument.....who knows, when Brady's career is over there may not even be an argument to be had. Patience, enjoy what we have and when it is done we will have a life time to discuss and compare.