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CNN reporter joins those who say: We've got to stay and finish it

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Fogbuster, Apr 29, 2007.

  1. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Rush Limbaugh massively dissed my faith and those who follow it just the other day, but I will forgive his fat, dumb, religiously-ignorant and possibly bigoted azz because on some things he does see the way it is.

    Here's what he said in a conversation with a caller on Friday who brought up CNN reporter, Michael Ware, who's been living and reporting in Iraq for some time:

    RUSH: .... Yes, I am very familiar with his work.

    CALLER: Yes. And he is consistent, anti-American effort in Iraq, so no one can accuse him of being a pro-war conservative. But yesterday on CNN Michael Ware told Kyra Phillips that if US troops leave Iraq, then Iran and Al-Qaeda will take over and own Iraq. And he said, you know, whether you were for the war in Iraq or against it, basically the United States has broken Iraq now, and the United States is responsible for fixing it, and he thinks that the Democrats' plan to just leave Iraq is absolutely delusional, and maybe you can find that sound bite if you get a chance, but --

    RUSH: You know, he said this twice. This is the second time he said this. What's interesting about this to me is that there are a lot of people saying what he said. General Petraeus is saying it. President Bush has said it. Joe Lieberman has said it. Any number of esteemed Americans have said exactly what Michael Ware said. If we get out of there, it's the central theme of the debate now. The Democrats own defeat; they want to give up; they want to wave the white flag of surrender. And people are saying, "If we get out of there now, it is going to be hell breaking out." Democrats say, "Oh, no, no, no! It's not going to get any worse. It can't get any worse than we've made it." But the point is this, with all due respect to Michael Ware, why is it that when a journalist says it, everybody stops and says, 'Oh, oh, wait a minute!" and why is it that when a journalist who happens to be a liberal at CNN says it, does everybody stop and all of a sudden start listening to this when people have been saying this for months, ever since this pullout and withdrawal debate began?

    Nothing against Mr. Ware here. What interests me more is what it is that gets people's attention. I'm not even talking about you, Keith. Because I noticed it, too. But it doesn't get played beyond. Other networks are not going to air the commentary of a competing reporter. There's no question that it may have, with some people, a little bit more credibility because the guy is a well known anti-war and is not a big fan of the United States, and so maybe you ought to listen. But isn't that a little troubling, in that the military generals and experts are automatically discounted because they're just Bush lapdogs? They're just propaganda. So we can't believe General Petraeus? He's been trying to tell the media this for the past two days. He's been trying to tell the Democrats in Congress the past two days. They won't even go talk to him. Nancy Pelosi won't even listen to Petraeus. The media's talking to him and they're reporting what he said, but there's no sense that anybody believes what he's saying. Nobody believes it when Bush says it, and nobody believes it when Lieberman or any other elected official says it.

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_042707/content/01125109.guest.html

    Fortunately, people are coming to their senses that, like it or not, now that we are in there, we have got to finish the job. It's the ****z that we ever went there in the first place, imho, but now there we CANNOT afford to simply turn and walk away. That would be compounding the mistake a thousand-fold.


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  2. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Redeploy to Qatar...UAE...Jordan...sound familiar?
     
  3. mikey

    mikey In the Starting Line-Up

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    Finish WHAT?

    What is the IT we are trying to finish?

    Answer this simple question: What are we trying to "finish" in Iraq?


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  4. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Answer: I belief we are finishing the job of freeing the Iraqi people from oppression by occupying them and providing them Pizza Huts.
     
  5. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Yeah, somebody on this board is suggesting that route. Not good as the first step. We need to make sure the level of violence is brought down to a level where people can live without fear there will be a bomb going off somewhere. Sure, this could take some years still, but look at Israel now compared to a few years ago when suicide bombers were striking about twice a week.

    Eventually, after things are stabilized, we can pull back out of the picture. Step by step.


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  6. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Not that we will be around to see that.


    It wont happen because the Iraqi oil laws are being established to ensure multinational oil corps (read Bushs oil cronies) have access to the majority of the fields. That means of course that the seed has already been planted, we've invested too much in their oil infrastructure already to pull out now, or at anytime in the next 30 years.

    Unless of course we are forced out, which is a distinct possibility now that the Shia are beginning to split from our "coalition of the willing". Hey, its what many here wanted...to give it to the Sadr militia. Be careful what you ask for because its now coming true.
     
  7. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    We are obligated to finish what we started when we removed Saddam and his dictatorial government from Iraq. Saddam and his Baathist party had created a strangle-hold on the nation. There was no opposition simply because anyone who publicly challanged Saddam was taken out and shot. Literally.

    So now we have taken out that kind dictatorship and replaced it with a pluralistic open democracy, where all sects -- Sunni, Shi'a, and Kurd -- have equal opportunity of representation in government.

    What remains to be done is to make it clear to these newly self-responsible disparate factions that they must play together from now on, without trying to knock each other off every time they feel like it. In that part of the world it's going to take some time to educate the people who fancy themselves as worthy to lead the nation, as the long history has been one of despotism, not pluralistic democracy. But we have to make it clear that is the only choice that is acceptable anymore.


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  8. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    I don't think "many" here wanted to give the country to the Sadr militia or any other single-party/faction. We went in to establish a multi-faction coalition government. It's not easy, but it is certainly doable. India has states which have Hindus, Sihks, and Muslims -- a volatile mix as potent as the Sunni/Shi'a/Kurd mix in Iraq -- and they take turns leading the governments on a regularly scheduled rotation of the presidency.

    We can do something similar in Iraq, and we must. We did not go there to remove one dictator only to set up another. I don't believe for a minute that's what Bush ever had in mind. It's something totally unacceptable and anybody attempting to pull that off deserves to be tar and feathered, or worse.



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  9. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Dream on Fogster.

    Your goal is to eliminate all bombs going off there?

    :rofl:
     
  10. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Took Ghandi to do that one Fog.

    You think Bush/Cheney is up to that standard?

    :rofl:
     
  11. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    You misread me and I apologize. My bad. When I typed "give it to them" I meant purely in a militaristic smackdown sort of way.

    I know what we're conceptually trying to do, but my beef for awhile now is that we have empowered Iran/shia and undone the balance of power. Humpty Dumpty it is you see, young Jedi.

    And we* were naive enough to think we could bomb the piss outta Iraq and they would all love us.

    When W said he was the uniter, do you think he meant uniting the Shia AND Sunni, and for that matter about 80% of the world, against US?

    You are in Lithuainia...Im sure were popular there though,right?

    *Loyal Bushies and fellow neo-cons
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2007
  12. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    I am presently in Lithuania -- now on my way to Russia for a short visit -- and yet, with the miracle we call the "internet", I am in constant contact with several hundred people in the U.S., as well as several hundred more in fifty other nations, at least.

    Bush's motivation is what I'm interested in. And I don't think he ever planned to do anything other than what he has said all along. Where he miscalculated -- and I will grant that it was a MASSIVE miscalculation -- is the sheer size if the problem that using military options poses today. Particularly in a desert, and most particularly against a rabidly fanatic group that abuses religion to whip up the masses to do utterly stupid, evil and vile things. Suicide attacks, for one.

    So, bottom line is that Bush's intentions were good, but his approach has been 60 years out of date. Having said that, now that there has been a wholesale change in governance in Iraq, we are duty-bound to see to it that the place is straightened out before we can leave it. It would be unconscionable to leave until or before then.



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  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Deer Fogbuster,

    You are inspired by a higher order and know all, we come to you in our time of need. Please help us.

    First of all you tell us over and over and over again the press is an instrument of the left wing, and we are all sheeple for listening to it. Now it is used to justify our existence in Iraq, it is all so confusing.

    Please tell me which way it is, situational news stories I am supposed to pay attention to or completely ignoring all media as they are biased. Do not know what to do, please advise.

    Signed,
    Confused in RI
     

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