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CNN:In the footsteps of Bin Laden 5 years after 911

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Blue Collar, Aug 24, 2006.

  1. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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  2. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Lets discuss the history of bin laden from when the cia funded and trained the loose knit resistance fighters in afghanistan in the 80's during the soviet invasion of afghanistan....

    Did clinton fail to arrest bin laden as
    claimed by the right?

    Did clinton refuse to kill bin laden claimed by the right?

    Did gary bernsten a cia field commander corner bin laden in tora bora in 01 and request U.S troops be called in to help block bin ladens escape..He says he called washington-centcom and that request was denied, and as you know bin ladeen escaped?

    Let's discuss bin laden, shall we!!!!!
     
  3. PatsFanInMaine

    PatsFanInMaine Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    BC, to get the discussion going why don't you tell us in your own words what you think?
     
  4. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Bin laden the terrorist was partially created by the afghan-soviet war where the cia trained and supplied arms to the resistance fighters and taught them how to fight against a superpower..

    Bin laden then went back to saudi arabia where he learned of iman al zarawi and together they created Al Qaeda....

    And then clinton was president when the WTC was truck bombed in 93, there is a connection to that bombing and bin laden, how close that connection is debatable....I would like to know and read the factual documentation in these allegations....I also blame clinton for not being forceful enough to exterminate bin laden in the 90's

    Then the embassy bombings in africa...

    Then the cole in october 2000.

    Then 911..

    Lets hear the right type and provide factual links to clinton repeatedly letting bin laden off the hook, to clear up these statements and see if they are true.

    And I'm sure the left side will engage and also bring GWB into this discussion, better believe I will.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2006
  5. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Are you ready to add anything to this discussion or should I keep adding commentary and links, until a right of center poster appears and is willing to engage and provide links and commentary to the subject matter?
     
  6. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Here are links to gary bernsten the cia field commander and how he explains the washington fugg up in not sending more army rangers as requested to capture or kill bin laden the planner of 911..

    At least GWB got saddam at a cost of $320 billion and counting and 2500+ fallen american soldiers and counting...
    More info on the way, be patient! and please explain the clinton failures with respect to letting bin laden get away and refusing to arrest him in sudan and other countries as has been pointed out numerous times by the right, I and other will read your factual links and be responsive to this gross incompetence and failure if TRUE....The right-wingers surely must be enticed to participate in this thread with that meat alone, BRING IT!!!!!!!!
    Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Bernsten
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2006
  7. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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  8. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Iadded more gary bernsten links concerning Bin Laden Al Qeada and Hizb'Allah and terrorist around the world...

    If anyone knows how to open these and partially place the script on a post, could you please help and provide this material on the post page.
     
  9. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Attention right of center posters can any of you provide the factual info of clinton shrugging off on bin laden multiple times for whatever reason???

    And do you want to opine and post links about bin laden and his ability to escape after 911 and bush the commander in chief and his connection to that botchjob and decision to take the hunt for bin laden to iraq instead at a cost of $$$$$320 billion and 10's of thousands of lives..

    Bring your info and links so we may read and learn!
     
  10. PatsFanInMaine

    PatsFanInMaine Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    First off apologies for the delayed response but prior commitments precluded me from commenting earlier. Rather than simply list reference allow me the opportunity to express myself in what I believe rather than what I can reference to. I offer no links to Youtube, Wikipedia, or any other sites that some would consider to be either conservative or liberal. Perhaps by doing so you will more understand my position and what I believe as it pertains to terrorism.


    First of let me state that any discussion of terrorism must go beyond the defined concept of simply Bin Laden. I firmly believe in the ancient Arab proverb that “The enemy of enemy is my friend†History has proven it to be true. America once was allied with the communist Stalin regime because we both faced a common enemy in Hitler. I believe that it is purely feasible that extremist terrorist organizations or nations will set aside their religious differences when their common goal is to combat opposing societies of freedom.

    Why do I digress from a simple concept of retribution against Bin Laden? Because I believe that today the capturing or killing of Bin Laden would have a negligible effect on the War On Terror. It may in fact have an opposite effect by allowing societies to believe that the war has been won. I believe that the root of modern extremist terrorism was born with the taking of American hostages in Iran in 1979. Amazingly the failure to take terrorism seriously has been pervasive in American administrations from Carter up to and including the current Bush Administration. In virtually every case where we were confronted , administrations chose a policy of appeasement instead of confrontation. The cumulative effects of such policies I believe are largely responsible for 911.

    On the issue of Bin Laden being offered to Clinton. It is recognized by every party involved that the Sudanese first offered Bin Laden to the Saudi’s but they declined citing that they had previously revoked Bin Laden’s Saudi citizenship and thus had no legal authority to accept him. From there it gets more murky. Sudanese official claimed that they then offered him to America. No other sources outside of Sudan are able to collaborate this claim. I believe that the Sudanese, being anxious to remove Bin Laden from their soil, would have been open to certain “suggestions†if the Clinton administration made them. What I do find pertinent to this though are statements by Richard Clarke, who was an advisor on terrorism in the Clinton administration, to the 911 Commission is that he felt the US had no legal authority to try bin Laden in a court of law at the time. This is a mistake that simply put can not be called germane exclusively to just the Clinton administration. As a lawyer I can not dispute Richard Clarke’s claim. I can however as a person concerned with US policy argue that legal restraints should have had no bearing on the issue. The issue of combating terror should not have been restrained to the auspices of a court of law but rather centered on the auspices of what is proper in a theatre of war. More precisely, Bin Laden’s rights should not have been a factor in any equation to disrupt him at the time. Procure him in a covert manner, derive necessary information from him, and at the appropriate time dispose of him.
     
  11. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Thank you for your response patsfaninmaine.

    I would like to discuss ''Bin Laden'' and we can add a new thread for global terrorism and it should be a fascinating topic....

    So now that I know your a lawyer, and for the record I'm a highscool droppout, I will defend myself in this case and Object to your decision to change the direction of the stated case and request we remain on the topic of bin laden, with reasonable other evidence admitted to the case of bin laden and terrorism is acceptable in bluecollars thread about Bin Laden, but a refusal to delve into the bin laden topic is contrary to this thread and the title of this thread...
    Just my 10th grade education and personal self educated rebuttal to your querry, cool?


    In due time there will be a global terrorism thread created to learn and debate about the terrorist groups aroung the globe and their connections to muslims, bin laden or whoever they are affiliated with.
     
  12. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Why didn't clinton drop the hammer on bin laden and al qeada when he had the chance?

    Why didn't bush go after bin laden and al qeada after learning about their role in bombing the cole, the embassies, and his other terrorist attacks around the planet?


    Why did bush not take the same approach to bin laden as he did with saddam?


    Anybody care to explain why and maybe provide facts with links and informative commentary?

    Lets operate on this pos bin laden and come to an agreeable conclusion as to why these presidents failed and thousands of humans have died due to their negligence in combatting bin laden and al qeada..


    Fair?
     
  13. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    FBN, no political videos to fret over:scared:

    Just commentary and text links, step up and debate and by all means add links even youtube links to add and build on your POINT or do what you do best?:enranged: Don't be a bluecollerhater, be a political debater:D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2005
  14. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    No one thinks Bin Ladin is the only terrorist.
    Bin Ladin was the terrorist who planned and put into motion the attack on WTC.
    Bin Ladin is the most evil POS on the planet.
    Bin Ladin should be the international public enemy # 1.
    Bin Ladin is a Saudi whose family has VERY close ties with the POS "Royal Family" there.
    POS Bush Family and the POS "Royal Family" are VERY close.
    Bin Ladin is likely in Pakistan.
    Bush and Musharrif are "allies".

    Conclusion:
    Bush and Bin Ladin are friends by extension - that's why he's alive today.
    Bush can't take him out because that would remove yet another justification for TWOT. He's running out of those.
    Bush is a traitor to the United States.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2006
  15. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Just to bump this to the top and try to gain attention of the right of center posters and see if their interested in debating the topic of the thread and clinton and or other presidents and bin laden?

    Patsfan13 I notice that you are replying to this thread, I need to go out for an hour or more, I will be back and read your comments and I'm sure other posters might engage with you and your reply, if not I will.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2006
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Clinton viewed terrorist as criminals rather than enemy combatants, he wanted to charge OBL with a criminal offense and have a trial in the US court system. It is said his administration didn't think they had charges to 'arrest' him with.

    The Bush administration got off to a late start due to thye Fl election issue. They didn't have all their officals through the confirmation process for a couple of months after his inaguration. If you are familiar with how bureauracies work it takes a few months after the new cabinet officals are in place to get their agenda in place.

    Since all the incidents you reference happened on the previous administrations watch it is legtimate to ask why they didn't respond to these attacks and OBl involvement.

    Well Saddam was the ruler of a country OBL is the leader of a non govermental movement. Saddam was finding and training terrorist (leave Al Wueda out of it if you wish, he was giving rewards to Hamas suicide bombers for example). Saddam had a track record of invading other countries, using poison gas, and there were 17 UN resolutions that could be used as the basis for the invasion politically.

    IMO Bush if Bush went after OBl in Afganistan prior to 9-11 he would have been crucified by the dems.

    I think we try to avoid the idea we are in a GWOT and want to think that if we leave them alone they will leave us alone. Look at the atitudes on this board, if you can't agree on the problem it is difficult/impossible to develop the political concensus required to reach a solution.

    BTW IMO it would be as important.more important to get Zawahiri.

    If for example we could trace their comms and use that imfo to dismantle their org, I'd leave them alone and eliminate the cells they send messages to and destroy the org,
     
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well your point about Clinton trying to prove that OBL and AlQueda were responsible for the USS Cole attack, proves my point that President Clinton viewed OBL activities as a criminal matter and not an issue of enemy combatants.

    As to the rest just the usual anto Bush screed, but like me you are entitled to your opinion. ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2005
  18. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why hasn't Bush Captured Bin Laden?

    Answer:
    BECAUSE HE CAN'T FIND HIM.
    :singing:
     
  19. Blue Collar

    Blue Collar 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Can you provide links with your statements please, if you are able to?

    Now I am going to Post one white house press corps link where bush answers questions....I will later on provide links of bush back in 01 thru the years leading up to the present day, JUST links of the bush whitehouse statements, some might be in text form ,others in mp3 format and others in real live video of the bush administrations statements to the american public, along with a brief or long commentary from....I realize you righties have a real bad problem watching a video of president bush SPEAKING to AMERICANS, and like fbn says it blows the veins out of temples dealing with that propaganda:D TOUGH sh--, it's legitmate and 100% accurate and it's the president or his administration speaking, and not mine or the evil liberal media opining on what he said...Learn to accept reality it's better then a rush or moore explanation..And I will add my commentary to go with the links I provide....Now here's One link, read it and later on after I read it I will place the pertinent statments of bush to the points I will make..
    I'm only ableto provide whitehouse documents at this time;)
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/08/20060821.html
     
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow. I've been saying this for years now. I even wrote this in a previous thread. I agree 100%, and have always felt this way.

    I know some people are letter of the law, principle, ends versus means types, and I can completely understand why. I too consider myself a man of principle and believe that principles are critical in maintaining a just, and moral society. That being said, I will always maintain that reality will forever trump principle. In instances like that which Clinton faced, you go the realistic course. You put idioticies aside and you take care of business.
     

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