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CNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Sep 17, 2012.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    It's about time mainstream news corporations starting to tell us the truth!

    For all those who gave me grief over my moaning about the lies we were being told concerning our unemployment rate.....

    I was right and you were wrong....but what-the-heck, it was only 7 or 8 points of unemployment we were talking about...right?:rolleyes:

    US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%: Expert - Yahoo! Finance
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    So you want to change the rules the Reagan changed, from MSNBC even though it is a Yahoo reference????
  3. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    This isn't MSNBC, it's CNBC.

    And yeah, it's fine if you want to use another metric if you feel it more accurately captures the real unemployment rate. But you need to be consistent (so, basically, not like Fox News).
  4. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    After I clicked on "Submit"...I started counting 3-2-1 que Darryl and his Reagan comment

    And you came through in FLYING colors just like I wanted you to!!!
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    Millions of people unemployed and the sycophants in the MSM and elsewhere spin like tops.
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    I changed it to CNBC....thanks!

    I agree regarding consistency. But if we changed the methodology, we'd actually see that the REAL unemployment rate hasn't come down nearly as much as under the current reporting system because not nearly as many workers would "fall off the list" and stopped being counted.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  7. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    its ALWAYS twice as high as reported.

    This has been the case since I can remember. Due to UNDER-employment, counting the military, and not counting those who simply stopped looking for work.


    I swear, sometimes, its like right wingers crawled out of from under a rock that they put on top of themselves and are screaming "ROCK!!!.....look at that ROCK!!!...WTF!!???..."
  8. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    How is using and reporting on the same measure of UE that has been used by the government and in media an example of media spin?
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    I think there are several issues going on here. The Republican governors were zealous at cutting the state employment rolls, pushing 700,000 more people into unemployment. Even with unemployment insurance and benefits, that probably translates to loss to the economy of roughly $15 billion, which probably put a lot of other people out of work. In other words, the deficit hawks have contributed mightily to this crisis.

    In addition, the collapse of unions and pensions has resulted in people generally earning less, having weaker retirement funds, and being able to save less, which further reduced the spending ability of Americans and hurt the labor market.

    I believe the problems started in the 1980s with Reaganomics, which recklessly cut taxes on the wealthy (and created record deficits too), cut programs designed to help poorer people enter the middle class, and reduced the influence of unions that helped create a middle class that had enough money that they could support their local small businesses.

    Now, we are in a situation where many older people need to continue working longer than they planned, often taking away jobs from younger people. Until we return to a more sensible economic model, like that which predated Reagan, it will be difficult to turn the economy around. I think Obama has taken steps in that direction with the stimulus plan, the auto bailout, his plan to raise taxes on the wealthy, and his general support of public unions.

    The conservatives don't really seem to have a plan. They seem to have a superstition, namely if you reduce government, cut taxes, and cut services, everything will be okay. That's based on absolutely nothing, i.e., there is neither real evidence or logic to support that theory. Reagan tried it, and unemployment rose to 10.8% (at which point he changed the methodology), so Reagan raised taxes and created record deficits, and suddenly the economy was doing well again.
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    Except the OP (me) is not a "right-winger" HD!

    The reason WHY so many highly intelligent people are complaining is this...now read closely HD!

    The current "Recession" is the longest since the Great Depression.
    The longer a recession lasts, the more people "fall off the list"
    This has never been an issue in my lifetime or yours Holy Diver.
    But it's an issue today and moving forward.


    It is more important than ever that we understand just how bad the unemployment picture is. We need to understand if going from 10.7% to 8.1% unemployment truly means people are going back to work (they're not). Or if it's just math. Because this will tell Americans what we DESERVE to know because when it comes the condition of our economy, you & I have every right to know EXACTLY what that condition is and our gov't has NO RIGHT to deceive the average citizen of that condition.

    Should make sense to you now HD.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  11. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    No, there is only ONE issue in this thread and that's the accuracely of the manner in which our unemployment is reported.

    This isn't a discussion about the history of how unemployment is reported, why unemployment is so damned high or who's fault it is.

    Do you understand?

  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    I have always gone by the test that if it smells like, looks like and acts like it usually is.. so by this highly reliable eyeball test, you are from the right..

    Why didn't you want to change the rules changed by Reagan, when Bush was president?? You seldom whined then..
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    Here's an example....

    A politician tells voters that our employment picture is getting better and the media supports his/her statement with distorted facts on a declining unemployment rate.
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    Glad to see that you dont buy Obamas spin either.
  15. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    [​IMG]

    But for the record, I hated Reagan with a passion. I've cast a vote for a republican once in my lifetime and that was for Scott Brown.

    So you don't really know diddly about my political views and you can't "SMELL" me at all.

    But I do for a fact that you're a radical leftie.

    BTW....the following is why all of us need to see a new unemployment report;

    The current "Recession" is the longest since the Great Depression.
    The longer a recession lasts, the more people "fall off the list"
    This has never been an issue in my lifetime or yours Holy Diver.
    But it's an issue today and moving forward.


    It is more important than ever that we understand just how bad the unemployment picture is. We need to understand if going from 10.7% to 8.1% unemployment truly means people are going back to work (they're not). Or if it's just math. Because this will tell Americans what we DESERVE to know because when it comes the condition of our economy, you & I have every right to know EXACTLY what that condition is and our gov't has NO RIGHT to deceive the average citizen of that condition.

    Should make sense to you now Darryl.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2012
  16. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    BLS = Obama?

    Got any evidence that Obama has rejiggered the manner in which UE is reported? Or is this just expanding the exhibit of your lousy reasoning?
  17. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    If you complained that the unemployment #'s were underreported during the last president, then you have no reason to be defensive. I've been saying this since I've been posting in the forum you can check. When I see you posting things like this:


    I have to reply with a "No $#!t?....Where have you been for the last 25 years?"
  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    FYI HD.....we didn't have an UNEMPLOYMENT problem under our last president!!

    Where you been?

    People only complain about the way unemployment is reported when unemployment is high.

    So you wanted me to complain when we had 4% unemployment? I should have attached a rofl guy here!

    And btw....I never voted for Bush 1 or 2....and never liked either one. But I DID vote for Clinton TWICE!!
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  19. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    You just admitted that Obamas numbers are not REAL. I dont care whats reported because most people know its just a lie.

    All that matters is what the actual unemployment rate is right now.

    Speaking of realty. Have a dose.

    Electoral college model predicts big Romney win - Conservative News
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    This is a political forum, not a statistics forum. Perhaps if you want to debate methodologies and reason for one formula over another, you should be in a different forum. My point is simply that it doesn't matter what the unemployment rate is. If we had always used the higher rate, then we would think that 10% unemployment was normal, I suppose. But, it does matter why the unemployment rate is so high.

    The fact that you are suggesting we use a different metric (something which you've brought up before, by the way, but I guess you like to repeat yourself) right in the heart of the election season is political in my opinion. You're not fooling anyone, PR. Most of your economic posts implicitly attack liberal economics and favor conservative economics.
  21. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

    You lost a lot of credibility with me here.

    how is losing 750,000 jobs a month not a problem?
  22. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    HD, exactly which months did we lose "750,000 jobs a month" under Bush? Oh, you mean AFTER Obama was elected and Bush became a lame duck?

    Hey, I voted for Obama! Don't blame me HD!

    Oh, you mean in Bush's last few months? The WAY it was counted still wasn't a problem....it's when unemployment remains HISTORICALLY HIGH that that methodology doesn't work.

    But then again, I aleady explained that to you, didn't I?
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  23. JackBauer

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    1.) I most certainly did not. What you did, intentionally or otherwise, is misread the sentence in question, which is certainly a failure on your part rather than a notable admission on mine.

    2.) They're not "Obama's numbers." They're the US government's numbers, and to my knowledge the system of reporting has remained constant since Reagan.

    So you're reduced to a month old widely debunked model that hasn't actually predicted anything, as well as an unwavering faith that Rasmussen is right and everyone else is wrong.

    Gonna be a long election night for you, I'm afraid.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  24. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    The day Obama stepped into office, we were losing 750,000 jobs a month.

    Bureau of Labor Statistics Data

    From Politifact:

    according to your logic, anything after a president becomes a lame duck never happened?

    Your claim of being non-partisan is questionable at best in my mind. Its cool to be that way, but not cool to claim the opposite.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  25. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    It would extremely rare to find anyone who is 100% non-partisan. When I joined this board, I was a staunch democrat and hated the "right".

    But the FACT is, I've never voted for a republican for POTUS...at least not yet. But this recession/depression has changed me a lot.

    Now I can't stand most politicians and would prefer NOT to even cast a vote in November.

    FACT is, we lost 750k jobs for 2 months...yet you posted it as "750 jobs A month" as if it was for a long period.

    Back to you point about me not complaining then....

    IT HAD JUST STARTED HD....no one was complaining. We were just scared.
  26. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    Here's a FACT Patters....

    WE CAN NOT SPEND OUR WAY OUT OF THIS RECESSION/DEPRESSION.

    End of story.
  27. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    http://secure.assets.bostatic.com/frontend/projects/fort-orange/img/jobs-chart.jpg

    It was a long period. it was over 200,000 jobs a moth for the better part of a year.

    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images...s/2012/5/4/1336140847662/jobs_chart_april.jpg

    every chart is the same...

    here is another one...

    http://s2.hubimg.com/u/5459629_f520.jpg


    see a trend?
  28. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    Tell that to FDR....

    Here is the pre-emoptive rebuttal to your claim that it didn't

    Did you hear FDR prolonged the Great Depression? - Salon.com
  29. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    Look HD...don't be stupid and believe

    "jobs losses/recession - Bush's fault"

    "job gains/recovery - Obama gets credit"

    That's not the way any economy works.

    Recessions and depressions come and go no matter which party is in office.

    Let's get back to thread topic, shall we?
  30. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: MSNBC: US Jobless Rate Really at 16%, Not 8.1%

    Yeah everything is just great Obama has the economy booming happy days are here again, ifnore the millions of unemployed with their EBT cards.

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