Welcome to PatsFans.com

Clunkers: Taxpayers paid $24,000 per car

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Oct 29, 2009.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,203
    Likes Received:
    236
    Ratings:
    +578 / 6 / -2

    Nice. So when do we let them take over health care again?


    Clunkers: Taxpayers paid $24,000 per car

    Auto sales analysts at Edmunds.com say the pricey program resulted in relatively few additional car sales.

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- A total of 690,000 new vehicles were sold under the Cash for Clunkers program last summer, but only 125,000 of those were vehicles that would not have been sold anyway, according to an analysis released Wednesday by the automotive Web site Edmunds.com.

    Still, auto sales contributed heavily to the economy's expansion in the third quarter, adding 1.7 percentage points to the nation's gross domestic product growth.


    Cash for Clunkers costs taxpayers $24,000 per car - Oct. 28, 2009
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2009
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,656
    Likes Received:
    221
    Ratings:
    +530 / 13 / -14

    #24 Jersey

    I think we all knew this intuitively. I have a co-worker who was going to replace his car in the next year or so, so he did it this way. The net effect was the government giving him money and him moving his timeframe up 6-12 months. Fast forward a year and he would have replaced the car anyway. The people running the government now are stupid and are equivalent to making a kid happy buy giving them a shot of sugar. We are supposed to control our personal finances better by watching these bozos spend money like this ? And as you said, just wait for healthcare reform which has little to do with healthcare reform and a lot to do with the government taking over a huge part of the economy.
     
  3. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    We call them bozos and yet ignore basic economic principles?

    There was once a day when Republicans could at least pretend to understand economics.

    Pump Priming
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2009
  4. Roland

    Roland On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2008
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I am currently investing in anything that is related to used car parts. All this non buying will become more repairs, more car parts from the major manufacturers and sellers of the aftermarket stuff.
     
  5. Rossmci90

    Rossmci90 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Does this include analysis of the jobs saved by the Cash for clunkers? One of the main reasons behind such a scheme is the protection of the jobs. If those jobs were left, not only would the economy suffer but there would be less tax revenue through income tax.

    So we would need to include the tax revenue saved and then deduct it from the total spent by the government.

    Whilst it appears this information is not available and so we can not know the real amount spent, without it makes the point made in the article moot.
     
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,929
    Likes Received:
    111
    Ratings:
    +252 / 8 / -12



    What jobs are saved?

    Auto sales are in the tank since the gov giveaway ended. If we could spend our way to prosperity why nit just have the gov give everyone a billion dollars so we will al be rich, we could pay off the national debt with al the extra tax revenue, perpetual motion money program from the government. Great.
     
  7. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    Gee Real World I hope you vetted and Analyzed this study of yours as carefully as you wanted to see HD's put through the wringer yesterday. We wouldn't want you looking disingenuous or nothin';)
     
  8. Rossmci90

    Rossmci90 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    So you're telling me that the promise of x amount of funding for car companies and y amount for new car sales when exchanged with old cars did not prompt car companies to keep jobs? Whether these sales actually occurred is irrelevant (even though some extra did), the pure existence of the scheme will convince companies to either not lay off workers and not lay off as many.

    Its quite a simple concept really, if you expect more sales you will not want to fire as many people. If you don't understand that i suggest you go back to school.
     
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,656
    Likes Received:
    221
    Ratings:
    +530 / 13 / -14

    #24 Jersey

    13 pretty much nailed it, the sugar high of CFC has been replaced by the sugar crash and over a year long period it'll all balance out except that instead of flat lined so-so sales they'll be up and down.
     
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,656
    Likes Received:
    221
    Ratings:
    +530 / 13 / -14

    #24 Jersey

    What he's saying is that if that did happen then it's over now, and then some as sales are way down with all the soon-to-be buyers having bought early. If layoffs were to happen, they're still going to happen just a month or two later.
     
  11. Rossmci90

    Rossmci90 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Correct me if im wrong, but we're talking about the cash for clunkers scheme. What happened afterwards is not relevant to this discussion. This article states that the scheme cost $24,000 per car but doesn't include increased (or rather lesser decrease) in tax revenue for the period of the cash for clunkers. If jobs were lost afterwards it would not affect the $24,000 as that is strictly referring to the period in which the scheme lasted.

    The fact that sales have dropped off since the scheme ended and jobs have been lost (although i have not seen any figures confirming this but i imagine it to be true) only confirms the effectiveness of such a scheme.
     
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,929
    Likes Received:
    111
    Ratings:
    +252 / 8 / -12






    Well no, it drained inventory for the dealers, and hopefully the car salesmen made a few bucks, however now the showrooms are empty, and the orders have dried up because the pool of buyers all bought at once, so the layoffs will continue apace, as demonstrated by GMAC going back for another government bailout... :rolleyes:
     
  13. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    Drained inventory and empty showrooms? I doubt that very much without substantiation considering that there had been a surplus of cars nobody was buying.
     
  14. Rossmci90

    Rossmci90 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2007
    Messages:
    934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Please explain how this has affected the $24,000 per car? You are trying to debate a point irrelevant to this discussion. If you want to try and prove my point about tax revenue to be incorrect then i am more than happy to have a discussion. But i will not waste my time discussing side issues when you have yet to provide a valid argument.
     
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,929
    Likes Received:
    111
    Ratings:
    +252 / 8 / -12



    You are kidding right?

    :singing:


    They all needed bailouts cause cars were flying off the lots, the cash for clunkers program was needed because the auto business is so good.


    You libs crack me up with you cluelessness.
     
  16. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Messages:
    5,894
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    Re-read the post, digest it, understand it, and then get back to me when you do.
     
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,184
    Likes Received:
    199
    Ratings:
    +292 / 12 / -10

    My sister and b-in-law took advantage of cash for clunkers, sold their car a year earlier than planned, and purchased a car that was quite a bit more expensive than planned. To some extent cash for clunkers helped stimulate the economy, but clearly the economy needs more stimulus and we need to crack down on Wall Street in order to ensure they start lending again so that American enterprise can go. I think Congress will be coming down with some legislation to force Wall Street's hand.
     
  18. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    39,336
    Likes Received:
    497
    Ratings:
    +1,144 / 13 / -27

    #87 Jersey


    Give business tax cuts and Wall Street will lend to them again. However, Obama will face a backlash for doing something so simple and yet so conservative. You can't force the free markets what to do with money - incentives is the way to go. Obama did promise somedeals for businesses producing in the USA ... I liked that promise and I hope he has not forgotten it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2009
  19. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,307
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 1 / -0

    We are like druggies for this sh&t.... We are so past the point of waking up... The culture of apathy we foster here makes me sick! I don't blame the Dem's for this. The culture has ben created.
     
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,184
    Likes Received:
    199
    Ratings:
    +292 / 12 / -10

    Tax cuts for the wealthy don't work, and Republicans know it. That's why when both Reagan and Bush cut taxes, they also increased deficits to a much greater extent. Tax cuts were a small piece of the puzzle. Better than giving business tax cuts is giving people health care and investing in new technologies, such as alternative energy. Clinton increased taxes on the wealthy and we set many economic records during his term.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2009

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>