Clayton gets it

[Oswlek]

Then you weren't paying attention. It was reported several places that Moss didn't put on these restrictions. The Packers and Patriots were the only ones who expressed enough interest to seek the rights to negotiate with Moss.

Why would Moss only be willing to negotiate with the Pats and Packers? He was on the record last year that he wanted the Vikings to trade him to Atlanta or Baltimore rather than Oakland. So two years later, he wouldn't go to Atlanta or Baltimore? That doesn't make sense.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2513308

If I am wrong, I am wrong, but that source is useless. It is from 2006 and it is Moss taling about where he would have liked to go in 2005. What does that have to do with this season?

 

[Flying Fungi]

I bet if he went to the Jets, many people on this board would be on my side of the arguement on this one. Now that he is a Patriot, his image has been sanitized. I'm sorry. Moss has been a pretty selfish player his entire career and I really doubt he changed all of the sudden.

I am there with you on this one. I have always considered him a turd. So long as he has learned something of the practice of self-restraint, I am certainly interested in seeing what he brings to Tom Brady's game. If he continues to be a turd, then he will undoubtedly be unceremoniously shown the door and I will applaud the team again for taking the (in my view) proper action.

For some reason, even as a curmudgeonly type, I am still optimistic that people can change for the better. Even if it is a temporary change, I am holding out hope that Moss can be cool for his stay in New England.

Maybe Goodell's reign will permanently alter the heretofor standard practice of teams rewarding physical skills and talent over attitude and behavior. That would be refreshing.

 

[Rob0729]

Let's rewrite some of this:

Again, unless you find every single GM saying that they would have not paid a lot more than the Pats for Moss, it is speculation. Keyshawn Johnson was looking for an one year deal for $2.5 million and no one was giving it to him and he is still a WR worthy of such a deal.


See how easy it is to disregard someone elses statement. It's all speculation! BTW, Keyshawn is most certainly *not* worthy of that kind of an investment. He is a league average WR at this point. Nothing more, nothing less.

Goodell's itchy trigger finger is precisely why NE made the deal that they did. The recognized that they could get a guy who would have likely commanded a lot more on the open market for very little. And with minimal commitment as well.

But you are deluding yourself if you truly believe that someone wouldn't have given Moss more money than NE did. Moss and Keyshawn aren't even in the same league, so that comparison is irrelevent. Many, many people believe that Moss' play of the past few years has been depressed due to injuries and, even more so, the complete disaster that his team has been - particularly the offense. These people include GMs and other players. A contract could very easily have been structured to give the team some assurance of Moss' attitude and given Moss the money.

BTW, I have no illusions of what type of person Moss has been in the past. I don't think all that many people here do as well. I really don't think that it has all that much relevence to this discussion, unless you are admitting that you are letting an outside force affect your decision.

I am not comparing Keyshawn to Moss. I am saying that Keyshawn couldn't get someone to pay him an one-year deal that is pretty comprehible to his value. Keyshawn is still a pretty good WR, but not great.

Keyshawn may or may not be an average WR, but Moss is nothing more than an average #1 WR right now until he proves otherwise. You can make as many excuses as you want for the guy but Moss has become an injury-prone underachiever the last three years. Only last year, was a year where he had a real excuse about his QB. Kerry Collins actually put up pretty good numbers in 2005 against popular beliefs.

Someone could very well have given Moss an million or two more, but I firmly believe Moss is using the Pats to cash in next year. So he may have forgone a million or two this year to get a deal worth exponentially more next year.

You said that Moss would only negotiate with New England or Green Bay. Why Green Bay? If Moss has decided to take less to win a Super Bowl, isn't there about 20 other teams he would consider before Green Bay. Or is it that eventhough Favre is not as accurate and makes a lot more mistakes, he still put up yards? Doesn't that support my theory that he is looking for the right situation to rehab his image and to cash in next year?

It seems pretty that is a very good change that Moss decided to come here on an one year deal to make more money, not less. He is taking an one year deal to cash in next year.

 

[Rob0729]

I am there with you on this one. I have always considered him a turd. So long as he has learned something of the practice of self-restraint, I am certainly interested in seeing what he brings to Tom Brady's game. If he continues to be a turd, then he will undoubtedly be unceremoniously shown the door and I will applaud the team again for taking the (in my view) proper action.

For some reason, even as a curmudgeonly type, I am still optimistic that people can change for the better. Even if it is a temporary change, I am holding out hope that Moss can be cool for his stay in New England.

Maybe Goodell's reign will permanently alter the heretofor standard practice of teams rewarding physical skills and talent over attitude and behavior. That would be refreshing.

I have no problems admitting I do not like Moss and that my opinions could be biased the other way because of it. I never liked Dillon, but I learned to live with him.

I just cannot believe a guy like Moss who was a selfish player in many ways could automatically change his spots. As I said in my other post, people said he took less to win a championship, but why was he negotiating with Green Bay if his priority was to win a Super Bowl? I still think assuming he has a good year this year, he will shock quite a few fans here and bolt to the team that gives him the most money.

I guess I am a crumudgeon type myself. I am not optimistic that Moss will change though. I think he can be managed with strong leadership, but I do think Moss' motivations are not as team oriented as some think and more about what will make Randy more money in the future.

The good news is that it is in his best interest to be a good soldier and try hard to achieve his own personal goal of making money next offseason. I don't care what his motivations are as long as he can perform and keep his nose clean. I just think this new Randy is a facade and the media is buying into it hook, line, and sinker. I don't think Belichick is really buying it either (otherwise why make his bonus contingent on making the final 53 man roster), but probably agrees that as long as Randy has the motivation to cash in next year that he will not fall into his old habits this year.

 

[Oswlek]

I am not comparing Keyshawn to Moss. I am saying that Keyshawn couldn't get someone to pay him an one-year deal that is pretty comprehible to his value. Keyshawn is still a pretty good WR, but not great.

Keyshawn may or may not be an average WR, but Moss is nothing more than an average #1 WR right now until he proves otherwise. You can make as many excuses as you want for the guy but Moss has become an injury-prone underachiever the last three years. Only last year, was a year where he had a real excuse about his QB. Kerry Collins actually put up pretty good numbers in 2005 against popular beliefs.

Someone could very well have given Moss an million or two more, but I firmly believe Moss is using the Pats to cash in next year. So he may have forgone a million or two this year to get a deal worth exponentially more next year.

You said that Moss would only negotiate with New England or Green Bay. Why Green Bay? If Moss has decided to take less to win a Super Bowl, isn't there about 20 other teams he would consider before Green Bay. Or is it that eventhough Favre is not as accurate and makes a lot more mistakes, he still put up yards? Doesn't that support my theory that he is looking for the right situation to rehab his image and to cash in next year?

It seems pretty that is a very good change that Moss decided to come here on an one year deal to make more money, not less. He is taking an one year deal to cash in next year.

I am not disputing that Moss is hoping to leverage NE to get more money in the long run. If your point is that he isn't *really* being that gracious than I completely agree. What I am disputing is the notion that Moss wouldn't have made more money than $3mm on the open market for this year.

With regard to Keyshawn, I guess we just disagree with his value. He is a vet minimum guy if there ever was one. Just look at Carolina, who just released him. Other than Steve Smith, they have no one at WR, but they felt he just wasn't that good anymore. Sure he put up numbers last year, but that was mostly because of being the second option on a team with Smith getting double and triple coverage every single play. Keyshawn is nothing more than a name now.

I don't know why Moss would choose Green Bay, but I could "speculate" . Moss would go to a highly visible team that throws the ball a lot - and a lot of long tosses at that. It is a virtual certainty that Moss hits 1,200 yards and 8 TDs on that team.

BTW, I don't think Moss will have nearly as impressive a statistical season as you do. I frankly will be surprised if he goes over 1,000 yards.

 

[Rob0729]

I am not disputing that Moss is hoping to leverage NE to get more money in the long run. If your point is that he isn't *really* being that gracious than I completely agree. What I am disputing is the notion that Moss wouldn't have made more money than $3mm on the open market for this year.

With regard to Keyshawn, I guess we just disagree with his value. He is a vet minimum guy if there ever was one. Just look at Carolina, who just released him. Other than Steve Smith, they have no one at WR, but they felt he just wasn't that good anymore. Sure he put up numbers last year, but that was mostly because of being the second option on a team with Smith getting double and triple coverage every single play. Keyshawn is nothing more than a name now.

I don't know why Moss would choose Green Bay, but I could "speculate" . Moss would go to a highly visible team that throws the ball a lot - and a lot of long tosses at that. It is a virtual certainty that Moss hits 1,200 yards and 8 TDs on that team.

BTW, I don't think Moss will have nearly as impressive a statistical season as you do. I frankly will be surprised if he goes over 1,000 yards.

I guess we are not as far off from each other as I thought.

I have said there is a decent or better chance that Moss might have gotten more money elsewhere, but I am not convinced of it. It is speculation either way.

Personally, I agree with you that Moss won't get 1,000 yards, but he is betting he has a big year to cash in. I don't see Brady stopping from spreading the ball around like he did in the past. He probably has the best receiving corp as a whole when you factor in TEs and RBs that he has ever had. I expect a lot of receivers to get balls.

As for Keyshawn, the Panthers cut him because he was due a $3.5 million bonus and rumors were that the higher ups were upset that he wasn't willing to fall on his sword and take full blame for a blown pass between him and Jake Delhomme that effectively ruined their season.