Clayton gets it

[BradfordPatsFan]

Didn't see this posted anywhere...

I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with Clayton.

Unlike T.O., who is all about himself, Moss made a sacrifice to become a Patriot. He took a $7 million pay cut. Try getting cab fare from T.O.

LINKY

 

[Mack Herron]

I don't think so.

Oakland was not going to pay him the inflated dollars at the back end of his contract, so this was phony money Moss was never going to see. Nobody else would pay him big bucks either, so it is misleading to say Moss took a cut. Moss' career was in the toilet, and he signed a deal that gave him the best chance to resurrect his career. No knock on Moss, but this is not any sort of sacrifice by the player. It is current market value.

 

[Tunescribe]

Re: I don't think so.

Oakland was not going to pay him the inflated dollars at the back end of his contract, so this was phony money Moss was never going to see. Nobody else would pay him big bucks either, so it is misleading to say Moss took a cut. Moss' career was in the toilet, and he signed a deal that gave him the best chance to resurrect his career. No knock on Moss, but this is not any sort of sacrifice by the player. It is current market value.

That's a good point, although he probably could've gotten a couple million more signing with Green Bay.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree. Moss may or may not have taken less to come to the Pats rather than several of his other options, but Moss was never going to get close to what Oakland was going to pay him over the next two years. Then again, he had no control on Green Bay not offering enough in trade value or that San Fran was not interested in trading for him. I think Moss may have only took an one year deal here in hopes to rehabilitate his image and cash in next offseason.

Although Moss has been saying and doing the right things since the trade, I think his paycut has been blown out of proportion. I also will wait to see if he uses this season to cash in next year and sell his wares to the highest bidder before I give him total credit for taking less.

If Moss is using the Pats to rehab his image and to cash in next year, his taking a pay cut this year isn't really him "getting it". It is a business decision to play "the game" for one year to make even more money the next year. If he decides to resign with the Pats for a reasonable contract for his value, then he will convince me and most of his doubters that he truly just wants to win.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Re: I don't think so.

Oakland was not going to pay him the inflated dollars at the back end of his contract, so this was phony money Moss was never going to see. Nobody else would pay him big bucks either, so it is misleading to say Moss took a cut. Moss' career was in the toilet, and he signed a deal that gave him the best chance to resurrect his career. No knock on Moss, but this is not any sort of sacrifice by the player. It is current market value.

As tunescribe pointed out, Moss could have gotton more elsewhere even if it wouldn't be as much as the inflated backend salary of his oakland contract.

I think it is fair to say that Moss took a 2-3M paycut to play for New England. To me, the interesting thing will be to see what he does after having a great year (assuming he does). Will he sign a reasonable contract with the pats? Will he look for the highest bidder? I'm really curious to see.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: I don't think so.

As tunescribe pointed out, Moss could have gotton more elsewhere even if it wouldn't be as much as the inflated backend salary of his oakland contract.

I think it is fair to say that Moss took a 2-3M paycut to play for New England. To me, the interesting thing will be to see what he does after having a great year (assuming he does). Will he sign a reasonable contract with the pats? Will he look for the highest bidder? I'm really curious to see.

The fact is that Moss couldn't have gotten more elsewhere because no one offered a higher draft pick than the Pats. We do not know if Green Bay would have paid him more. Reports were that they were very much on the fence about Moss and they refused to give up more than a fifth rounder for him. We have no idea what they were offering in salary, but it is a fair assumption that they were not willing to give up what the Pats were offering in trade compensation that they were not going to offer Moss a higher salary than the Patriots.

It is pure speculation of what Moss could have gotten with other teams. It fair to speculate either that he might have gotten more elsewhere or that what the Pats gave him is on par what he would have gotten elsewhere. The fact of the matter was he wasn't in a position to pick and choose his next team (and contrary to initial reports, he didn't say he only wanted to play for the Patriots). For all we know, he might have taken even less to go to almost any other team with a decent QB just to get out of Oakland.

 

[Oswlek]

Re: I don't think so.

Oakland was not going to pay him the inflated dollars at the back end of his contract, so this was phony money Moss was never going to see. Nobody else would pay him big bucks either, so it is misleading to say Moss took a cut. Moss' career was in the toilet, and he signed a deal that gave him the best chance to resurrect his career. No knock on Moss, but this is not any sort of sacrifice by the player. It is current market value.

It absolutely is a sacrifice. He could very easily have forced Oakland's hand by not renegotiating his contract. Had he done that, he would have been cut and he would have made at least twice as much on the open market.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: I don't think so.

It absolutely is a sacrifice. He could very easily have forced Oakland's hand by not renegotiating his contract. Had he done that, he would have been cut and he would have made at least twice as much on the open market.

Again, pure speculation. We have no idea how things would have turned out. Odds are that Moss would not want to take more than an one year from whoever he signed with because his market value is at an all time low and one good year somewhere else would significantly increase his value. Then people would write off his three year slump as being in the wrong situation rather than the doubts that many GMs around the league have about him. If there weren't doubts, the Pats and Packers wouldn't have been the only two teams willing to trade and the Pats being the only team willing to give up a fourth.

 

[Flying Fungi]

I have a hard time accepting that, if Moss was a FA, he couldn't have gotten far more than what he agreed to take from the Patriots.

 

[Oswlek]

Re: I don't think so.

Again, pure speculation. We have no idea how things would have turned out. Odds are that Moss would not want to take more than an one year from whoever he signed with because his market value is at an all time low and one good year somewhere else would significantly increase his value. Then people would write off his three year slump as being in the wrong situation rather than the doubts that many GMs around the league have about him. If there weren't doubts, the Pats and Packers wouldn't have been the only two teams willing to trade and the Pats being the only team willing to give up a fourth.

One question:

Why is my assertion that Moss would have gotten at least $6mm for one year from some team pure sepculation while your *actual* speculation that nobody would have offered Moss more than NE did the "odds on" truth?

Hasn't this league taught you yet that someone would have shown Moss the money? When TO can go from quite possibly the worst teammate in the history of the league to earning over $10mm last year alone, I tend to believe that one of 32 teams would have talked themselves into giving Moss some cash.

Frankly, I think it is ludicrous to think otherwise.

 

[Rob0729]

I have a hard time accepting that, if Moss was a FA, he couldn't have gotten far more than what he agreed to take from the Patriots.

I have a hard time accepting that if a team was willing to pay Moss far more than the Pats were going to, that they were not willing to at least try to trade for the guy when it was clear that he could be gotten for a second day pick in a what most people agree was a bad draft.

Again, people are assuming Moss wanted a long term deal. I strongly think he didn't want to take anything more than an one team deal on a team with a good QB so he can put up some good numbers and cash in next year.

He gets at least 1,200 yards and 10 TDs with the Pats this year he will get far more next year than any team would give him in a contract this year. By taking an one year deal with the Pats, he may end up making millions more than if he was released by the Raiders and signed a long term deal somewhere else. Moss' value is pretty low right now. Hence how cheap we got him for.

 

[Oswlek]

I have a hard time accepting that if a team was willing to pay Moss far more than the Pats were going to, that they were not willing to at least try to trade for the guy when it was clear that he could be gotten for a second day pick in a what most people agree was a bad draft.

Again, people are assuming Moss wanted a long term deal. I strongly think he didn't want to take anything more than an one team deal on a team with a good QB so he can put up some good numbers and cash in next year.

He gets at least 1,200 yards and 10 TDs with the Pats this year he will get far more next year than any team would give him in a contract this year. By taking an one year deal with the Pats, he may end up making millions more than if he was released by the Raiders and signed a long term deal somewhere else. Moss' value is pretty low right now. Hence how cheap we got him for.

THe answer to this is simple.

Moss only agreed to renegotiate for New England and Green Bay.

Care to rethink your postion now?

 

[Rob0729]

Re: I don't think so.

One question:

Why is my assertion that Moss would have gotten at least $6mm for one year from some team pure sepculation while your *actual* speculation that nobody would have offered Moss more than NE did the "odds on" truth?

Hasn't this league taught you yet that someone would have shown Moss the money? When TO can go from quite possibly the worst teammate in the history of the league to earning over $10mm last year alone, I tend to believe that one of 32 teams would have talked themselves into giving Moss some cash.

Frankly, I think it is ludicrous to think otherwise.

It is pure speculation because no team was interested in trading for the guy other than the Packers eventhough no one other than the Pats offered anything more than a fifth rounder and the Pats might not have even offered a fourth if they didn't make a trade to get that pick.

TO is probably the reason why he wouldn't get the money you think. The Cowboys took a gamble on TO and lost so far. TO was part of the reason why Parcells walked away from the game. People thought at the time it was a safe gamble with TO because they thought he would be good for the first year and they would get one dominant year out of him. And TO didn't have three down seasons like Moss.

Moss is a guy who quit on his team when it got bad. GMs are afraid of guys like that. Unlike TO, Moss hasn't been a dominant player in three years. It makes it a huge risk that he will not produce. Even the Patriots made most of his money for the deal contingent on making the final 53 man roster.

 

[Flying Fungi]

I have a hard time accepting that if a team was willing to pay Moss far more than the Pats were going to, that they were not willing to at least try to trade for the guy when it was clear that he could be gotten for a second day pick in a what most people agree was a bad draft.

Again, people are assuming Moss wanted a long term deal. I strongly think he didn't want to take anything more than an one team deal on a team with a good QB so he can put up some good numbers and cash in next year.

He gets at least 1,200 yards and 10 TDs with the Pats this year he will get far more next year than any team would give him in a contract this year. By taking an one year deal with the Pats, he may end up making millions more than if he was released by the Raiders and signed a long term deal somewhere else. Moss' value is pretty low right now. Hence how cheap we got him for.

I disagree. If Oakland had released him outright, he would have had offers. I feel that said offers would have been greater than what the Patriots are paying him this season.

You don't have to agree, and I do not expect you to--but having a strong counterview does not invalidate the preponderance of opinion, some of which comes from veteran NFL professionals, pundits and the like, that Moss took less to play for the Patriots. The deal for Randy Moss was an excellent value deal for the Patriots.

 

[Rob0729]

THe answer to this is simple.

Moss only agreed to renegotiate for New England and Green Bay.

Care to rethink your postion now?

Sure if it was true. Since it isn't. I will pass.

That rumor has been debunked just like rumor Belichick clocked Moss running a 4.29 before he traded for him. Multiple sources stated that Moss made no restrictions of who he would be traded to or negotiate with.

 

[Oswlek]

Sure if it was true. Since it isn't. I will pass.

That rumor has been debunked just like rumor Belichick clocked Moss running a 4.29 before he traded for him. Multiple sources stated that Moss made no restrictions of who he would be traded to or negotiate with.

I have heard nothing of the sort.

 

[Rob0729]

I disagree. If Oakland had released him outright, he would have had offers. I feel that said offers would have been greater than what the Patriots are paying him this season.

You don't have to agree, and I do not expect you to--but having a strong counterview does not invalidate the preponderance of opinion, some of which comes from veteran NFL professionals, pundits and the like, that Moss took less to play for the Patriots. The deal for Randy Moss was an excellent value deal for the Patriots.

I don't disagree that is a good deal for the Patriots.

Considering most of the NFL experts talk about the $7 million he left on the table this year, they may not know what they are talking about because. Moss most likely would never had seen that $10 million from the Raiders.

Again, unless you find a single GM that says that they would have paid a lot more than the Pats for Moss, it is speculation. Keyshawn Johnson was looking for an one year deal for $2.5 million and no one was giving it to him and he is still a WR worthy of such a deal.

It is a new league and Roger Goddell is laying down the law and owners have itchy trigger fingers. There are probably a lot of teams that would be afraid to touch Moss. There are others who don't need Moss.

Moss could very well have gotten more, but no one knows for sure. I bet if he went to the Jets, many people on this board would be on my side of the arguement on this one. Now that he is a Patriot, his image has been sanitized. I'm sorry. Moss has been a pretty selfish player his entire career and I really doubt he changed all of the sudden.

 

[patsox23]

Re: I don't think so.

File that under "even a blind squirrel..." John Clayton, whether in pro-Pats mode or not, is a complete and utter buffoon. He's truly an idiot. He is part of what's WRONG with sports media. The dumbest of the dumb, dressed up in a crappy complexion and crappier specs.

 

[Rob0729]

I have heard nothing of the sort.

Then you weren't paying attention. It was reported several places that Moss didn't put on these restrictions. The Packers and Patriots were the only ones who expressed enough interest to seek the rights to negotiate with Moss.

Why would Moss only be willing to negotiate with the Pats and Packers? He was on the record last year that he wanted the Vikings to trade him to Atlanta or Baltimore rather than Oakland. So two years later, he wouldn't go to Atlanta or Baltimore? That doesn't make sense.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2513308

 

[Oswlek]

I don't disagree that is a good deal for the Patriots.

Considering most of the NFL experts talk about the $7 million he left on the table this year, they may not know what they are talking about because. Moss most likely would never had seen that $10 million from the Raiders.

Again, unless you find a single GM that says that they would have paid a lot more than the Pats for Moss, it is speculation. Keyshawn Johnson was looking for an one year deal for $2.5 million and no one was giving it to him and he is still a WR worthy of such a deal.

It is a new league and Roger Goddell is laying down the law and owners have itchy trigger fingers. There are probably a lot of teams that would be afraid to touch Moss. There are others who don't need Moss.

Moss could very well have gotten more, but no one knows for sure. I bet if he went to the Jets, many people on this board would be on my side of the arguement on this one. Now that he is a Patriot, his image has been sanitized. I'm sorry. Moss has been a pretty selfish player his entire career and I really doubt he changed all of the sudden.

Let's rewrite some of this:

Again, unless you find every single GM saying that they would have not paid a lot more than the Pats for Moss, it is speculation. Keyshawn Johnson was looking for an one year deal for $2.5 million and no one was giving it to him and he is still a WR worthy of such a deal.


See how easy it is to disregard someone elses statement. It's all speculation! BTW, Keyshawn is most certainly *not* worthy of that kind of an investment. He is a league average WR at this point. Nothing more, nothing less.

Goodell's itchy trigger finger is precisely why NE made the deal that they did. The recognized that they could get a guy who would have likely commanded a lot more on the open market for very little. And with minimal commitment as well.

But you are deluding yourself if you truly believe that someone wouldn't have given Moss more money than NE did. Moss and Keyshawn aren't even in the same league, so that comparison is irrelevent. Many, many people believe that Moss' play of the past few years has been depressed due to injuries and, even more so, the complete disaster that his team has been - particularly the offense. These people include GMs and other players. A contract could very easily have been structured to give the team some assurance of Moss' attitude and given Moss the money.

BTW, I have no illusions of what type of person Moss has been in the past. I don't think all that many people here do as well. I really don't think that it has all that much relevence to this discussion, unless you are admitting that you are letting an outside force affect your decision.