Clay Matthews: The Gift That Keeps On Giving

[patchick]

I wanted Lauranitis or Maulauga but look at Maluaga now...

There were quite a few folks here who were frustrated that the Pats didn't take Maualuga, but it's interesting how all of the pre-draft "whispers" about him have proven true -- by his own admission.

 

[Feep50]

I find this thread very interesting and enlightening reading.......

Be that as it may: I desperately want to see 2 or 3 beastly, ill-tempered and mountainous OLB on this team pretty dern soon! And I don't give a rat where BB finds them!

 

[patchick]

Be that as it may: I desperately want to see 2 or 3 beastly, ill-tempered and mountainous OLB on this team pretty dern soon! And I don't give a rat where BB finds them!

Let us all say: Amen.

 

[Off The Grid]

Indeed. There wasn't anyone in that draft who I wanted more ~ at his ADP ~ than Clay Matthews...And Coach Bill The Great's persistent refusal to fail to properly address OLB is MADDENING...But my favorite thing about Coach Bill The Mad ~ and there is much to choose from ~ is his relentless and remorseless parlaying of good picks into GREAT picks.

The Clay Matthews Parlay will go down in history ~ alongside the RIDICULOUS Joe Staley Parlay ~ as the greatest two Parlays in Patriot Draft History...

...Until, of course, we are done playing out The Richard Seymour Parlay.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Indeed. There wasn't anyone in that draft who I wanted more ~ at his ADP ~ than Clay Matthews...And Coach Bill The Great's persistent refusal to fail to properly address OLB is MADDENING...But my favorite thing about Coach Bill The Mad ~ and there is much to choose from ~ is his relentless and remorseless parlaying of good picks into GREAT picks.

The Clay Matthews Parlay will go down in history ~ alongside the RIDICULOUS Joe Staley Parlay ~ as the greatest two Parlays in Patriot Draft History...

...Until, of course, we are done playing out The Richard Seymour Parlay.

I really hope the Richard Seymour parlay turns out to be among other things WR Green of Georgia.

 

[TruthSeeker]

OOOps!!!

My apologies. I confused Brian Cushing with Clay Mathews. :bricks:

I wanted Lauranitis or Maulauga but look at Maluaga now...

Who's to say Maluaga would have had tha DUI if he's a member of th Pats. Despite the lack of leadership as reported by Tom Brady, the Pats have way better leadership than that zoo in Cincy.

 

[PATSNUTme]

Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman, and (97% of) Rob Gronkowski.

OK, I was one that wanted Matthews and I still wish that we would have taken him.

Butler- so so freshman year and could be a solid starter but we don't know

Tate- my hopes is that he will be a good 2nd or 3rd wideout not to be confused with a slot.

Edleman- contributed greatly last year as a 7th rounder. We could have taken him without the trade down for Matthews

Gronklowski- my hopes are high for him.

I really, really, really hope that by mid-season I can say that the trade down instead of taking Matthews was great for us. Right now I would have taken Matthews as the others have not contributed as he has so far.

PS If that was Barwin it's a great trade.LMAO

 

[cstjohn17]

Passing on Clay Matthews last year has been a source of ongoing angst for many on this board. In the wake of this year's draft, I thought I'd update the running tally of what the Patriots have received in return for their 2009 1st-round pick:


EDIT: bucky spotted that i'd taken a wrong turn in the twisty, turny path of that pick. My apologies, it appears that we can officially close the door on the 2009 1st rounder with:

Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman, and (97% of) Rob Gronkowski.


(Meanwhile it was the #89 overall in 2009 that the Pats have turned into Spikes, Mesko and--in a poetic turn--this year's #89, which has become Carolia's 2001 2nd round pick. Contemplate that: they parlayed a late 3rd into 2 2nds and a 5th!)

Part of the age old debate, which is better 5 nickels or a quarter?

Trading this pick has allowed the Patriots to add high quality backups and increase roster depth. While the Packers have added an impact starter at a premium position (a position of need for the Pats by the way). If Butler or others become starters then edge Patriots otherwise edge Packers.

Seems like an inverse replay of the Chad Jackson trade with the Packers having a better eye for talent than the Patriots.

Clay Matthews
"Packers OLB Clay Matthews says he's in the "best shape of his life" heading into his second NFL training camp.

Matthews, listed at 245 last season, says he's up to 261 pounds. A quality run defender already, the third-place finisher for 2009 Defensive Rookie of the Year will again be a solid bet for double-digit sacks as a sophomore."

 

[Sciz]

He was never a realistic pick. He doesn't fit the defensive scheme.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

He was never a realistic pick. He doesn't fit the defensive scheme.

I disagree. He's essentially the same players as Jermaine Cunningham, though much faster and more skilled in coverage. He was a great scheme fit, but he just didn't have a lot of starting experience (not to mention mediocre stats), and the worry was that he might be a workout warrior--sure, he's been fantastic, and well worth his draft status, but I can't fault BB for not drafting him. I wouldn't have picked him until the second round, personally.

 

[Sciz]

He was 26 pounds lighter than Cunningham at the combine. He also was know in college for running around blocks and not taking them on. Last year with the Packers, he was in a system where he could go after the QB and not worry about reading the play. In my opinion, he lacks the bulk and the instincts to play here. He's a knifer all the way. Works just fine in a lot of places, but not here.

 

[cstjohn17]

He was 26 pounds lighter than Cunningham at the combine. He also was know in college for running around blocks and not taking them on. Last year with the Packers, he was in a system where he could go after the QB and not worry about reading the play. In my opinion, he lacks the bulk and the instincts to play here. He's a knifer all the way. Works just fine in a lot of places, but not here.

He is up to 261 now, ideal size for an OLB. As a rookie he added immediate value as a pass rusher, special teams and third downs. Year two he will become a full time starter. Plus he is locked up for five years.

Hell is going to freeze over before the Patriots find players who fit their system.

 

[patchick]

When I first started this thread, I had gotten crossed up in the maze of trades and mistakenly thought that the book wasn't yet closed on that pick. That was the impetus for the thread start. I didn't intend it to be a referendum on Matthews per se -- more of a reminder to those still fuming that the Patriots passed up on Matthews that there would be other holes to fill if they hadn't.

So let's tackle it this way: if you'd still rather they had drafted Matthews at #19, how would you approach the roster spots currently filled by Butler, Tate, Edelman and Gronkowski?

Keep in mind the way the absence of those draftees might have affected other moves. E.g. if they didn't have the extra 2nd-round pick available for Gronk, they'd presumably have to use one of their other top picks on a TE -- you can't count on Hernandez being around in the 4th. Etc.

 

[MaineMan]

When I first started this thread, I had gotten crossed up in the maze of trades and mistakenly thought that the book wasn't yet closed on that pick. That was the impetus for the thread start. I didn't intend it to be a referendum on Matthews per se -- more of a reminder to those still fuming that the Patriots passed up on Matthews that there would be other holes to fill if they hadn't.

So let's tackle it this way: if you'd still rather they had drafted Matthews at #19, how would you approach the roster spots currently filled by Butler, Tate, Edelman and Gronkowski?

Keep in mind the way the absence of those draftees might have affected other moves. E.g. if they didn't have the extra 2nd-round pick available for Gronk, they'd presumably have to use one of their other top picks on a TE -- you can't count on Hernandez being around in the 4th. Etc.

Well! If you're gonna put it THAT way! Sheesh!

 

[cstjohn17]

When I first started this thread, I had gotten crossed up in the maze of trades and mistakenly thought that the book wasn't yet closed on that pick. That was the impetus for the thread start. I didn't intend it to be a referendum on Matthews per se -- more of a reminder to those still fuming that the Patriots passed up on Matthews that there would be other holes to fill if they hadn't.

So let's tackle it this way: if you'd still rather they had drafted Matthews at #19, how would you approach the roster spots currently filled by Butler, Tate, Edelman and Gronkowski?

Keep in mind the way the absence of those draftees might have affected other moves. E.g. if they didn't have the extra 2nd-round pick available for Gronk, they'd presumably have to use one of their other top picks on a TE -- you can't count on Hernandez being around in the 4th. Etc.

Only because I am bored numb...

Patriots Trade pick 23 to Baltimore for pick #26 and pick 162
#26 they take Clay Matthews
#162 they take Edelman
#40 they take Butler

They sign Gaffney instead of letting him walk (replaces Tate)

Hernandez falls to the 4th round

No Gronk in this sceanrio but blocking TEs are a dime a dozen.

 

[cstjohn17]

Passing on Clay Matthews last year has been a source of ongoing angst for many on this board. In the wake of this year's draft, I thought I'd update the running tally of what the Patriots have received in return for their 2009 1st-round pick:


EDIT: bucky spotted that i'd taken a wrong turn in the twisty, turny path of that pick. My apologies, it appears that we can officially close the door on the 2009 1st rounder with:

Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman, and (97% of) Rob Gronkowski.


(Meanwhile it was the #89 overall in 2009 that the Pats have turned into Spikes, Mesko and--in a poetic turn--this year's #89, which has become Carolia's 2001 2nd round pick. Contemplate that: they parlayed a late 3rd into 2 2nds and a 5th!)

The debate continues... 5 nickels versus a quarter. It takes players to win in the NFL, when I see this kind of stuff.


Clay Matthews
"Packers linebackers coach Kevin Greene called OLB Clay Matthews Jr. "the most complete outside linebacker that I have seen", and compares Matthews' ability with NFL greats Lawrence Taylor, Rickey Jackson, and Derrick Thomas.

High praise coming from the NFL's third all-time sack leader, also a former outside linebacker. Green Bay struck gold when they selected the Matthews in the third round of the 2009 draft, and the sophomore Pro Bowler should again flourish as an IDP asset in 2010."

Note: This text is wrong, Matthews was a first rounder

 

[condon84]

Only because I am bored numb...

Patriots Trade pick 23 to Baltimore for pick #26 and pick 162
#26 they take Clay Matthews
#162 they take Edelman
#40 they take Butler

They sign Gaffney instead of letting him walk (replaces Tate)

Hernandez falls to the 4th round

No Gronk in this sceanrio but blocking TEs are a dime a dozen.

I'd settle for the scenario you posted above.

TE's are not utilized in our offense the way they are being drafted in the early rounds. Yet, OLB is one of the most important positions we have yet it took 10 years before Bill used a second round pick on one.

 

[Off The Grid]

The debate continues... 5 nickels versus a quarter.

Not really.

The whole premise of this Thread is to suggest that getting the MOTHER LODE of Talent that Coach Bill II has accumulated is better than the single pick.

And of course you're right in that whether or not that's true IS a matter of debate.

But it's not 5 nickles versus a quarter. Not even CLOSE.

It's more like 2 Knights and 2 Bishops versus a Queen.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Not really.

The whole premise of this Thread is to suggest that getting the MOTHER LODE of Talent that Coach Bill II has accumulated is better than the single pick.

And of course you're right in that whether or not that's true IS a matter of debate.

But it's not 5 nickles versus a quarter. Not even CLOSE.

It's more like 2 Knights and 2 Bishops versus a Queen.

One of the considerations for evaluating a trade like this over time is that team needs are fluid.

At the time of this trade, we were and amazingly still are absolutely desperate for a pass rushing OLB and BB passed on one to provide depth at other positions.

 

[Off The Grid]

One of the considerations for evaluating a trade like this over time is that team needs are fluid.

At the time of this trade, we were and amazingly still are absolutely desperate for a pass rushing OLB and BB passed on one to provide depth at other positions.

Very nicely put.

While there's no question that 2 Knights and 2 Bishops trump 1 Queen, in terms of generally perceived Value...there is also no question that those Values are sometimes extremely fluid, and are always relative to the Tactical situation.

Put another way ~ and to echo your point ~ it's all well and fine to parlay Picks so well that we develop exceptional Depth of Talent on our roster...But it would be folly, indeed, to do so if the result is to ensure, in the years ahead, that we constantly make the playoffs, but just as constantly fall short in the Big Games, due to a persistently pathetic Pass Rush.

***

Belichick's bewildering neglect of obvious deficiencies at LineBacker, ere the past 5 or 6 years ~ first at ILB, then at OLB ~ is absolutely MADDENING.

***

My hope, of course, is that Cunningham is the real deal, and that Coach Bill The Mad has a Master Plan that, a year hence, brings Robert Quinn HOME.