Clay Matthews and size

[Sciz]

The point is everyone thinks the Pats will only consider OLB with certain measurables. The reality is most of their OLB on the roster do not meet these requirements on top of the fact that they suck.


NFL.com lists Ninkovich as 6'2.

Rob Ninkovich, OLB for the New England Patriots at NFL.com

Ninkovich was 6031 at the combine right before being drafted. Six feet, three and one-eighth inches.

The OLBs on the roster don't meet these requirements, but it's not like Bill is drafting those guys in the first round. The only one of those undersized guys who Bill has anything invested in is TBC, and that's because of his value as a pass-rusher, not as an every down OLB. Ninkovich was a cheap free agent. Murrell was a cheap free agent. Cunningham is 5/8 of an inch under the 6'4'' mark, but is also a 266 pounds.

The fact is, none of these guys (other than Cunningham) were drafted in the top 6 rounds by the Pats. Belichick has specifically said that he wants certain size requirements from his OLBs. He never said they needed to be that big to make the roster or to play, he said they needed to be that big to be worth a high round pick, and that has proven completely true.

 

[TriplecHamp]

And Connor Barwin was 10x that. I think Patsnutme was the only one who actually wanted Matthews that year

Riddler and I did as well

 

[Snake Eyes]

Ninkovich was 6031 at the combine right before being drafted. Six feet, three and one-eighth inches.

The OLBs on the roster don't meet these requirements, but it's not like Bill is drafting those guys in the first round. The only one of those undersized guys who Bill has anything invested in is TBC, and that's because of his value as a pass-rusher, not as an every down OLB. Ninkovich was a cheap free agent. Murrell was a cheap free agent. Cunningham is 5/8 of an inch under the 6'4'' mark, but is also a 266 pounds.

The fact is, none of these guys (other than Cunningham) were drafted in the top 6 rounds by the Pats. Belichick has specifically said that he wants certain size requirements from his OLBs. He never said they needed to be that big to make the roster or to play, he said they needed to be that big to be worth a high round pick, and that has proven completely true.

So the OLBs we've drafted in the late rounds havent proved worthy of being drafted in the early rounds? I'm shocked.

I find it especuially amusing that, by those requirements, Lawrence Taylor wouldnt be highly considered at a height of only 6'3 and weight of 240lbs.

 

[TriplecHamp]

So the OLBs we've drafted in the late rounds havent proved worthy of being drafted in the early rounds? I'm shocked.

I find it especuially amusing that, by those requirements, Lawrence Taylor wouldnt be highly considered at a height of only 6'3 and weight of 240lbs.

LT couldn't play here, too short/too light and he took plays off.

/elitism

 

[Ochmed Jones]

For all the talk of height/weight requirements of the Pats for their OLB.


Rob Ninkovich 6'2 255
TBC 6'2 250
M.Murrell 6'2 250

Cunningham 6'3 266

Moore (DE) 6'4 268

And as a group they are what? Can you say the worst set of OLB's in any 3-4 defense in the league.

Maybe the lack of length, pass rushing skills and playmaking skills are the most of the reason our OLB's are horrible.

 

[Snake Eyes]

LT couldn't play here, too short/too light and he took plays off.

/elitism

Did Seymour ever take plays off? That's a guy that many here, including myself, would love to have back.

And the fact that LT was one of the greatest players ever, and who played under BB, might be reason to reconsider you're assumptions regarding height/weight.

 

[Mogamedogz]

If I could pick one pro athlete who I thought was juicing it would be Matthews.

Who cares... The question is, can he get away with it? the answer is yes...so far.

Do you know how many players in the league are on gear? me either, but i would imagine the number is pretty damn high. Outside of MMA, the NFL administers one of the easiest PE tests to get past of any other sport. A simple urine test.

The only ones who get busted are complete idiots or extremely careless.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Who cares... The question is, can he get away with it? the answer is yes...so far.

Do you know how many players in the league are on gear? me either, but i would imagine the number is pretty damn high. Outside of MMA, the NFL administers one of the easiest PE tests to get past of any other sport. A simple urine test.

The only ones who get busted are complete idiots or extremely careless.

So which category does Spikes fall into?

 

[PATSNUTme]

And Connor Barwin was 10x that. I think Patsnutme was the only one who actually wanted Matthews that year

Yes, I wanted him bad. But I have fogiven Box and his Connor Barwin posse for the mock and ridicule that they serve up to me.

I never said "I told you so".


But, I told you so.

 

[Mogamedogz]

So which category does Spikes fall into?

I dont believe he was busted for PED's... If I remember right it was a banned substance in his ADHD meds.

 

[Shelterdog]

I find it especuially amusing that, by those requirements, Lawrence Taylor wouldnt be highly considered at a height of only 6'3 and weight of 240lbs.

He was really, really big for an OLB when he was drafted 30 years ago.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

And as a group they are what? Can you say the worst set of OLB's in any 3-4 defense in the league.

Maybe the lack of length, pass rushing skills and playmaking skills are the most of the reason our OLB's are horrible.

Preaching to the choir on this. Worst of both worlds. Players who lack both the physical desirables and the talent.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Ninkovich was 6031 at the combine right before being drafted. Six feet, three and one-eighth inches.

The OLBs on the roster don't meet these requirements, but it's not like Bill is drafting those guys in the first round. The only one of those undersized guys who Bill has anything invested in is TBC, and that's because of his value as a pass-rusher, not as an every down OLB. Ninkovich was a cheap free agent. Murrell was a cheap free agent. Cunningham is 5/8 of an inch under the 6'4'' mark, but is also a 266 pounds.

The fact is, none of these guys (other than Cunningham) were drafted in the top 6 rounds by the Pats. Belichick has specifically said that he wants certain size requirements from his OLBs. He never said they needed to be that big to make the roster or to play, he said they needed to be that big to be worth a high round pick, and that has proven completely true.

I don't think he's ever come out and said those words exactly but if by a high round pick you mean 3rd round or higher you have a sample size of 2.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Preaching to the choir on this. Worst of both worlds. Players who lack both the physical desirables and the talent.

If you look you'll find plenty of OLBs with the "desirable "height/weight/arm length combo who have sucked, same with 6'4-6'6 QBs. There are also plenty of "undersized" OLBs who have been successful, the wrong measurables are being focused on.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

If you look you'll find plenty of OLBs with the "desirable "height/weight/arm length combo who have sucked, same with 6'4-6'6 QBs. There are also plenty of "undersized" OLBs who have been successful, the wrong measurables are being focused on.

OK great, I've never considered that before... Oh wait, I've said basically the same thing myself dozens of times.

 

[IllegalContact]

sure matthews would help the pats.

so what? he's not here so what's the point?

shoulda coulda woulda.......

the pats could have also drafted mike wallace instead of brandon tate........so what

 

[IllegalContact]

He was really, really big for an OLB when he was drafted 30 years ago.

tippett was bigger

 

[Shelterdog]

tippett was bigger

By like 3 pounds.

They were both very, very big for linebackers. Most players were much smaller-Hannah was about 270 and that's 40 pounds less than a guy like Mankins.

 

[IllegalContact]

By like 3 pounds.

They were both very, very big for linebackers. Most players were much smaller-Hannah was about 270 and that's 40 pounds less than a guy like Mankins.

Nahh......don blackmon was 235, rembert was 234 both 6-3.....average size for the times

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1985/probowl.htm

In the pro bowl that year, Taylor was very average sized.

 

[billdog3484]

If I could pick one pro athlete who I thought was juicing it would be Matthews. He was 6-1, 165 as a 16 year old junior in high school, it's not clear what he was as a senior in high school, about 190 as a freshman at USC, 6-3 225 as a 19 year old redshirt freshman, 230 as a sophomore, 230 as a 21 year old junior, 246 as a 22 year old senior, down to 240 at the combine, 250 as a rookie and 255-260 now.

The growth from 230 - 260 is really, really suspicious-he'd bulked up 35 pounds in a year and 60 pounds of great weight over three years which is already a lot, then stayed at 225-230 for a few years, then jumped up another 20 pounds of good weight from his junior to his rookie year, then another 5-10 pounds in another year..

i dont think thats fair at all


1. you dont know the guy; 2. people have late growth spurts; 3. you dont know how hard he works; 4. kinds go to college all the time as skinny, lanky athletes and put on a lot of weight. me for instance, i entered as a college athlete at 6'1 170 pounds. never took one supplement, by the time i was a sophomore i was 6'1 210 and the 40 pounds extra was muscle. i was bigger, stronger, faster, more explosive...and i didnt take anything. there are A LOT of kids who end up being 330 pound lineman who enter their freshman season as 6'4 230 pound kids. you just never know.

you may be right, but i am not going to be so quick to say so. cushing was caught, matthews was not. who knows.

i doubt there is a guy like matthews in this years draft...if there is, i hope we get him