Christopher Price's DB analysis

[crowell33]

It Is What It Is Analyzing the impact of losing Leigh Bodden to injured reserve

 

[Patspsycho]

It Is What It Is Analyzing the impact of losing Leigh Bodden to injured reserve

By far the sensible analysis. As it says, there isn't a real dropoff from Bodden to Butler. I think McCourty can handle his own on the other side.

However, everyone seems to have forgotten about Arrington.

I really don't think BB is going to trade for a vet or scrounge around for castoffs.

 

[TimU]

That's good stuff. It makes all the sense in the world to evaluate corners based on their "passer rating against" .

 

[JackBauer]

Well, the rub of the whole situation is that we really can't afford an injury to Butler or McCourty, or else then we're really screwed.

 

[bigcountry75]

I really don't see a point in going out to get another DB....They can all look like all pro players if we have a pass rush....I would rather bring in someone that can rush the passer and cut time off of the young guys covering than bring in another DB....

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Interesting analysis except for the point that it's totally off the mark as to who played what position last season. Springs and Butler split the LCB position which unless you are switching based on matchups is generally the #1 CB position unless you're facing someone who struggles in that area like Sanchize. Bodden was the RCB, and generally in that matchup he gets more opportunities if the lcb is doing what he's supposed to. Generally speaking we don't switch up our corners to matchup with individual receivers. Even when Ty Law lobbied for it... I hope some of Butler's pre season appearance to have taken a slight step back isn't side related (Asanti always whined that he was uncomfortable on the right side, which I assume was related to future financials...). Could also be related to Butler feeling somewhat marginalized in anticipation of slot duties once Bodden returned (which some felt he was better suited to anyway). The two were close this off season and until McCourty landed on scene I think assumptions were being made about positional locks...

This may also impact ST as it would be hard to potentially sacrifice your LCB to kicking duties, although KO tends to be a little less hairy than PR and as Welker underscored Bill historically tends to utilize his best football players not named Brady wherever he needs them...

The real impact here would appear to be depth. Both Butler and McCourty have the talent and athleticism to start. What they lack is experience. Behind them are largely nickle backs unless the health stars align and the light finally goes on for Wheatley.

 

[Pats726]

I think it's quite optimistic to say that Bodden to Butler will not be all that bad. It MIGHT be in time,,but I would be quite happy if what he predicted would happen. I really think a vet is needed to stabilize that unit and while that might be more intangibles, not having that I think will make it a long season. I just think having a vet who has seen 4-5 or more years of play would help rather than hurt and its absence will see receivers torching this team a lot. Yes, a pass rusher would also help, no question but in that case BOTH would really help and I do think it possible. No question that depth is really hurt here..so a vet would help with that as well.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think it's quite optimistic to say that Bodden to Butler will not be all that bad. It MIGHT be in time,,but I would be quite happy if what he predicted would happen. I really think a vet is needed to stabilize that unit and while that might be more intangibles, not having that I think will make it a long season. I just think having a vet who has seen 4-5 or more years of play would help rather than hurt and its absence will see receivers torching this team a lot. Yes, a pass rusher would also help, no question but in that case BOTH would really help and I do think it possible. No question that depth is really hurt here..so a vet would help with that as well.

A vet for vet sake is a waste of time. You can't lead young talent from the bench or the tub, and if you can outplay them you're not just a vet for vet sake and you cost a lot more than a day two pick. Sometimes it's better if youngsters are forced to rely on staff coaching and don't have someone with no familiarity with this system in their ear or fluffing their skirts or teaching them bad habits. Duane Starks was brought in to be that vet presence back in 2006 and all he did was destabilize an entire secondary...

 

[capetide]

While my eyes told me that Wilhite was bad last year, I didn't realize how horrible he actually was. His numbers suggest that his presence on the field had little impact on the opposiing offense. Almost like noone was there.

 

[Pats726]

A vet for vet sake is a waste of time. You can't lead young talent from the bench or the tub, and if you can outplay them you're not just a vet for vet sake and you cost a lot more than a day two pick. Sometimes it's better if youngsters are forced to rely on staff coaching and don't have someone with no familiarity with this system in their ear or fluffing their skirts or teaching them bad habits. Duane Starks was brought in to be that vet presence back in 2006 and all he did was destabilize an entire secondary...

Glad you KNOW it all..But lets see what happens...Guess we should close the thread..NO NEED to continue it....

 

[BradyFTW!]

I really liked this analysis (hence why it led Patscast daily last night), but I do think that it missed the mark a little bit in that it didn't address the real issue of what we lost: depth. The dropoff isn't so much from Bodden to Butler (although, due to matchups, the numbers don't quite indicate how significant that dropoff really is). The real dropoff is at nickel, and depth in general. We're going to have to ask a lot more of Wheatley/Wilhite than I was hoping for.

 

[AzPatsFan]

It Is What It Is Analyzing the impact of losing Leigh Bodden to injured reserve

That is a particularly good analysis of the situation. It also highlights the poor analysis that had Terry Wheately in danger of being cut, this pre-season despite and after his superb camp. Despite playing poorly while playing injured, he was head and shoulders better than Willhite according to the analysis. And wunderkinden Arrington, isn't in the same County.

The only positive out of the Bodden injury, is it provides all those Arrington boosters, a sure slot for their man to make the Team. We will all see how the Unguided Missile makes up for not being able to cover a paper bag, by delivering inaccurate Big Hits.

 

[Pats726]

That is a particularly good analysis of the situation. It also highlights the poor analtsis that had Terry Wheately in danger of being cut, this pre-season dsipite and after his superb camp. Despite playing poorly while playing injured, he was head and shoulders better than Willhite according to the analysis. And wunderkinden Arrington, isn't in the same County.

The only positive out of the Bodden injury, is it provides all those Arrington boosters, a sure slot for their man to make the Team. We will all see how the Unguided Missile makes up for not being able to cover a paper bag, by delivering inaccurate Big Hits.

he will be a top STer and unless there are MORE injuries will not be playing much D.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Glad you KNOW it all..But lets see what happens...Guess we should close the thread..NO NEED to continue it....

Whatever...I'm not sure you get much out of reading threads anyway...

 

[PATSNUTme]

Don't be surprised to see Merriweather moved to CB. Then either McCourty or Butler on the other side. This will leave Sanders/McGowen and Chung at the safeties.

I don't consider that to be too bad. That will leave Butler or McCourty as the nickle and Wheatly or Willhite as dime. I think Willhite is good when he doesn't have to be outside.

It does all depend on QB pressure from the front 7 as to how these guys can cover. I don't care about sacks as much as I do constant pressure.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Don't be surprised to see Merriweather moved to CB. Then either McCourty or Butler on the other side. This will leave Sanders/McGowen and Chung at the safeties.

I don't consider that to be too bad. That will leave Butler or McCourty as the nickle and Wheatly or Willhite as dime. I think Willhite is good when he doesn't have to be outside.

It does all depend on QB pressure from the front 7 as to how these guys can cover. I don't care about sacks as much as I do constant pressure.

I know that was Box's first thought, but Bill seldom opts to weaken two positions in a potential attempt to mask one. Meriweather is projecting as a pro bowl safety, not sure you want to mess with that. And it seems we were getting pressure this preseason, it was soft zone coverage vs. quick releases and accurate hard to defend throws that were causing most of the problems last week.

 

[Sicilian]

I know that was Box's first thought, but Bill seldom opts to weaken two positions in a potential attempt to mask one. Meriweather is projecting as a pro bowl safety, not sure you want to mess with that. And it seems we were getting pressure this preseason, it was soft zone coverage vs. quick releases and accurate hard to defend throws that were causing most of the problems last week.

I think if you look at it strictly by positions, you're correct. But as for assignments, I can see Meriweather moving down to cover certain guys in man coverage if matchups dictate it. He won't be "playing corner", but he'll have some typical corner responsibilities in some situations.

 

[Pats726]

I dont think that his comment tends to suggest that he "knows it all" and I do tend to agree with him that by playing the younger players at a full time clip, they will learn quicker, and perhaps better, than being force fed someone elses way of getting the job done. What works for one person does not necessrily work for another.

REALLY?? I guess I misread that..As I said in my post..we shall see what is done...whether a vet is brought in or not..whether if they go with the rooks and the CBs they have now they are torched or not. I believe a vet will help that others do not is all fine. I trust BB to do what he thinks is needed to make it work.

Its not like McCourty and Butler are 12 year olds trying to make a Pop Warner team (unless of course it's the Raiders or Lions) and I am sure they know what needs to be done

KNOWING what is needed to be done and GETTING it done are two different things...I am optimistic long term with these two and even with others..BUT OC and TO?? That first game could get ugly...

 

[cloud34]

Don't be surprised to see Merriweather moved to CB. Then either McCourty or Butler on the other side. This will leave Sanders/McGowen and Chung at the safeties.

I don't consider that to be too bad. That will leave Butler or McCourty as the nickle and Wheatly or Willhite as dime. I think Willhite is good when he doesn't have to be outside.

It does all depend on QB pressure from the front 7 as to how these guys can cover. I don't care about sacks as much as I do constant pressure.

I know there have been instances where a CB has moved to S and been very successful, Ronnie Lott being the greatest example. But can the same be said for moving a S to CB? I can't think of any.....Once again, the pass rush is the greater problem. Seems to get pressure, we have to send 5, sometimes 6, leaving most of the young CB's on an island. Without pressure from 4, I don't think it matters if it's Bodden or Butler.....or Revis, Champ Bailey, Deion Sanders....

 

[mloyko]

My real concern isn't Butler and McCourty being the starting corners, it is that it now greatly weakens our nickel and dime packages. Wilhite as the numbers prove is the worst CB in the world. He now will be the nickel corner and have to play a pretty big role. I would rather give Wheatley a shot a nickel, I think he has looked better this preseason. Wilhite all preseason has been picked on just like he was last year. Our depth is greatly effected, more so than the drop off between Butler and Bodden.