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Christianity and violence in the world

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by 3 to be 4, Dec 24, 2006.

  1. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 Rookie

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    While I dont care for the distraction to the Gospel caused by Rick Warren, he does have some attractive and legitimate social and political points.

    One he made on "Meet the Press" this morning, in response to the myth of how Religion, mostly Christianity, has bred so much violence in the world, he offered the point that athiests need to look at recent history.

    While there is no doubt misguided Christians caused havoc way back when, when we look at the last 100 years, athiests and followers of other religions have been responsible for more deaths in that time, than all the deaths caused by the crusades etc combined.

    Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and those responsible for all the genocide in Bosnia, Africa,S.America, Iraq etc etc etc were ALL non-Christians, and mostly athiests.

    But the anti-christian propaganda, fueled by people hostile to Jesus Christ, continue to use this bogus argument to keep people from ever considering accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

    Im just sayin.....
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You won't get much response to this, the Left Winger Dingers don't like to talk about this so they will just let it die off, they don't care much for "White Christians" they don't dare say anything bad about "Minority Christians" because they claim to be the Minority's friend, but they are full of sh!t.

    Minority's LOVE Jesus, Minority's love to sing Gospel Songs about Jesus, there are many, many "Minority Reverands", they mention God often.

    When Liberalism attacks Jesus, the Nativity, CHRISTmas, and the Ten Commandments why don't the Minority's "Get Mad", strange ain't it, why don't Minority Reverands complain about the War On The Ten Commandments.

    I Walk In The Garden Alone
    While The Dew Is Still On The Roses

    PHONY SCREAMING REVERANDS.
  3. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 Rookie

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    the Black ones? lets be real. Im not interested in the famous. blabbermouth reverands. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are just as bad as the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons.

    But I went to plenty of Black Churches in South Carolina, I watch Bishop Jakes and I listen to a Black preacher here in KC regularly, and if the message is focused on the gospel there is no color difference in the message. What gets lost in the media is the fact that 40% of Christians are Democrats and 80% of Black Christians are Democrats. The media wants people to think to accept Christ you have be a Neo-Con or a Jerry Falwell Republican.

    That all being said, it wasnt the point of the thread. It wasnt so much on White-Black Dem-Rep U.S. Politics. It was this world political religious lie that Christianity has caused so much violence in modern history, when in fact athiests and Muslims have caused MUCH more in this century alone than Christians ever caused.

    Unless Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were closet Evangelical Christians??
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Anyone born in the west was born under the influence of Judeo-Christian values. These values have clearly failed to allow some of the worst murderers in history to rise to power. Besides, Stalin studied to be a priest and Hitler called himself a Catholic, and to my knowledge none of these people disavowed Christianity while committing their crimes: King Leopold of Belgium; Mussolini, the Colonial leaders of France, England, and Spain; Franco; Pinochet; etc. My view is that a narrow dogma, religious or not, can easily breed intolerance, hate, and violence, and Christianity, which fosters materialism and competitiveness, has the upper hand in terms of being the most murderous, violent dogma that ever was.
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have to face it, "God Is On The Way Out" and the Left Wing Liberal Democrat is leading the charge to destroy him, the "Minority Reverand" was only mentioned to show the "Hypocrisy" (they love Jesus yet they back the very enemy that is trying to destroy Jesus) :confused: :confused:

    The Left Wing Liberal Democrat wants the word "GOD" out of anything and everything in Washington and most all of America (they don't dare attack Allah they are afraid they will be hunted down and beheaded)
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My read is the opposite, from who I talk with, who is listen to god & religion are very much a part of their lives.. there are some who clog the airways who want you to think is that it is not..this is another issue that becomes polarized and a talking point, without basis. Right Wing Nut Jobs and Liberal Fringe Elements attack christmas, but none of the leaders do, they would not be so stupid. The attack on Christmas has to do with an evolving capital, big spending economy.. try doing a Christmas without the gifts, both sides of the aisle would scream like pigs.

    Once again not sure where the god stuff becomes the exclusive value of the right.. except it sounds good.
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Never been to a market in Egypt, I take it. Talk about materialism and competetiveness! All religions are narrow and dogmatic, otherwise they aren't religions. A person who is a Christian is no more competetive than a Jew or Muslim. That's just a load of crap.

    I did have a fun Christmas, though!
  8. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    Hitler was buddhist then? Or maybe a communist athiest? :rolleyes:
  9. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Don't forget that bastid, Atilla the Hun. He gave Pagans everywhere a bad name...bastid.
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Wistah, you hit it kid. There are loons in every religion. There are loons who are athiests too. That a loons will be associated with a religion of some sort is pretty logical when you consider that 99% of the planet is connected to one. Religion isn't the problem fellers, it's the people. Remember, guns don't kill people, people with guns kill people.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was measuring competition and materialism based on our historical success, not some dickering at a street market. It's hard to believe that western culture, with its Judeo-Christian roots, didn't have greater drive than other cultures in terms of accumulating. After all, we (meaning western culture) were the ones who aggressively pursued that which belonged to others, thus WWI and WWII, Colonialism, not to mention the way we took the land from the American Indians.

    Don't get me wrong, western culture isn't all bad, and in fact is arguably the best of a pretty lousy group of them. Our materialism and competitiveness is what has given us such a long life span and good quality of life, but millions of innocent people have paid the price. If you don't attribute the relative wealth of western nations to our Judeo-Christian culture, what aspect of our culture do you attribute it to? Or do you think we're simply smarter? Or perhaps you think the white man has predisposition to violence, regardless of religion?
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I think you hit it on the head. White men, namely the Northern European version, are products of cultural forces that derive violent tendencies from the harsh climate they evolved from. Before they were "civilized" by Christianity, the Huns, Celts, Norse, Germanics, Gauls were all some of the more violent groups in history. The Mongols behaved simarly, and possibly for the same reasons. Their homes were cold, hard to farm, and the cultures were nomadic, oppertunistic, and extremely violent. Geography and climate have a lot to do with behaviors that many anthropologists are beginning to associate directly with climate. What history of violence has ever been demonstrated by Phillipinos, almost an exclusively Catholic population for hundreds of years? What about the Modern Latin American nations?

    Of course, there's always the examples of the Meso-American cultures that were the most violent and blood-thirsty in human history such as the Maya, Aztec, Inca, etc. What connection did they have to Judeo-Christian "values".

    My point is that there are a number of reasons for human behavior. Judeo-Christian philosophy has its problems, for sure. Environmental indifference is probably one of the worst consequences of the "mastery of the earth and all the beasts of the land" principle of the OT. But to blame greed and violence on a single set of philosophies is gross oversimplification, IMO. What do you think of these other factors?
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wistah, I mostly agree with you. Did you read Guns, Germs, and Steel? It presents what you're saying in greater detail and with wonderful logic for the most part. But, I do think that religion should be a civilizing influence, and Christian proselytizing has been perverted for generations into a tool for expansionism, greed, and destruction. While there are othe cultures with histories of violence, it's hard to top Christian civilization. Also, let's keep in mind it's not all climate related. Spain and the Holy Roman Empire come to mind in that regard.

    That said, it's worth trying to weigh the murderous forces of western civ against it's positive forces, such as wiping out diseases, creating better ways to farm, fostering democracy, etc. My post was in response to 3 to be 4's attempt to deflect responsibility from Christianity to atheism, when in my view even our brands of atheism are byproducts of the Judeo-Christian culture we live in.
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm right your wrong
    Your wrong I'm right

    That will be going on until the planet explodes and we all will be blown into little pieces of sh!t.
    :bricks:
  15. BruschiOnTap

    BruschiOnTap Rookie

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    I think you need to read 'Guns, Germs, & Steel' by Jared Diamond
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I went to the website. Before I go get the book, tell me why I should.
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wistah, the author offers a fascinating and incredibly logical theory that the reason places like Europe evolved more quickly was because the climate allowed a larger variety of domesticatable animals to flourish which led to better farming and greater disease resistance and the motivation to develop more types of tools, and so on. He spells out very beautifully something along the lines of what you were saying about our violence developing from the harsh climate. It's a very cool and very convincing argument that you would probably enjoy.
  18. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Man has been killing Man since Man began.
    Man will continue to kill Man until Man ends.
    Look what they did to Jesus, he went out a lot harder than Saddam.
    Most all animals kill each other, live with it and stay out of the housing projects after dark.

    Put another log on the fire
    Cook me up some bacon and some beans.
    :bricks:
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Good deal...I'll go get it as soon as I finish the three books I got for the Winter Solstice Holiday.
  20. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Please don't stereotype all liberals as you see fit.... I believe very strongly in God.... Unfortunately, i don't hold the crusader's interpretation of him that you clearly do... To me, the God i learned about and recognize doesn't advocate intolerence, lies, mass killing of innocents, lies, class division, lies, tax breaks for the rich, lies, wishing for misfortune on all "smelly muslims" (as you say), lies, or groping German diplomats.... Just doesn't seem very Christian to me from the "Christian Values" party at all... Perhaps that's what makes a Christian to you.... so then, there we are...
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2007

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