Chris Long's change of direction and athletic ability....impressive!

[sebman2112]

Watching the D-Line and LB drills today, and Chris Long's footwork and hips were outstanding, while he maintained good speed. He's (unofficially) run a 4.71 forty, at 6'3" 272lbs. His 34in vert was pretty nice, and his 10'4" long jump was very good.

These are the type of drills I had wanted to see Chris go through as I knew how good of a pass rusher he could be, but I wanted to see him go through some of these agility drills and coverage drills. In any case what I've seen from Chris so far has been quite impressive. He's quite the athlete, with a very nice frame/build, and agility.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.

 

[rsd]

He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.

I think you are vastly overrating 40 times, especially when the difference is not huge. The Patriots have shown the prefer football players instead of the athletic freaks, and I think they have a justifiable position.

 

[sebman2112]

He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.

4.71 isn't at all slow for a 272lbs DE/OLB. His 4.71 isn't far off Gholston's 4.64 either.

I've already talked about how much I like Groves (been talking about him for months), so you don't have to win me over. Trading down and taking Groves has been among my favorite options, too. Besides I don't think there's even a 10% chance Chris Long makes it to 7th overall, so I didn't post this thread for that reason.

Also, Harvey at 291lbs has looked better than I expected.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

4.71 isn't at all slow for a 272lbs DE/OLB. His 4.71 isn't far off Gholston's 4.64 either.

I've already talked about how much I like Groves (been talking about him for months), so you don't have to win me over. Trading down and taking Groves has been among my favorite options, too. Besides I don't think there's even a 10% chance Chris Long makes it to 7th overall, so I didn't post this thread for that reason.

Also, Harvey at 291lbs has looked better than I expected.

Was he really 291? I read on another thread that it had been corrected to 271. . . .

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

4.71 isn't at all slow for a 272lbs DE/OLB. His 4.71 isn't far off Gholston's 4.64 either.

I've already talked about how much I like Groves (been talking about him for months), so you don't have to win me over. Trading down and taking Groves has been among my favorite options, too. Besides I don't think there's even a 10% chance Chris Long makes it to 7th overall, so I didn't post this thread for that reason.

Also, Harvey at 291lbs has looked better than I expected.

Seb's,
Your right 4.71 isn't slow for 272 pound DE. It's the OLB part that I'm alittle concerned about. I'm not a Big fan of Long nor Gholston if we are going to convert them to OLBer's. I just think we aren't talking about our new playing surface enough as it pertains to this draft. When we had quicksand in between the hashes we could field a slower team but it showed up this season how slow we were at LBer. I believe that's why we got AD because of his outstanding speed with his playmaking ability. Long and Gholston to me are both OLB projects who are slow for our playing surface. IMHO.

 

[jays52]

He was impressive in his movement. But that 40 time is ssssllllllloooooowwwwwww compared to Gholston and my favorite Quentin Groves. I want our team to be faster off the edge and he would be my 3rd choice at the moment. I will say I think he's a smart kid who could make up for his lack of speed with technique and instincts like Bruschi, however we have a fast track now and we need very fast playmakers on defense now. I like the value of trading down picking up extra picks and getting a potential steal in Groves more than picking Long or Gholston at 7. I think Long is being alittle overrated because he's Howie's son. I'm not saying he's not good but let's be honest, he's getting alot more hype because of his father.

1) It's not a slow 40 for a 3-4 outside guy at 270.
2) That position is about explosion. Look at the broad jump and leap, explosive hips. That's what makes a guy an effective 3-4 outside linebacker. It's pretty telling about first step in rush, and finishing speed in persuit. I bet the dude can hangclean with the best of em.

Sebman, have you seen Gholston in the drills? I only got to see them running their 40's before I had to get some work done. How's he look?

 

[Patdown93]

Gholston looked good in the one LB drill I saw him in. He looked fluid, but not as fluid as Chris Long. He stayed low and kept his hips low. He moved well overall. He did hold the ball at a weird angle though.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

I think you are vastly overrating 40 times, especially when the difference is not huge. The Patriots have shown the prefer football players instead of the athletic freaks, and I think they have a justifiable position.

I don't think I do, I'm just pointing out the facts. And yes there is a Big difference between a 4.52 and a 4.62 or 4.72 especially in a game of inches. You also need to look at the yard splits. Also, I believe the Patriots are changing they're philosophy to a more speed and playmaking ability. I believe they want athletic freaks who are also football players and they won't win with "JAG"'s or "Plug and Play players" anymore. Look at the personel acquisitions the last off-season. Speed,speed and playmakers.

 

[jays52]

I don't think I do, I'm just pointing out the facts. And yes there is a Big difference between a 4.52 and a 4.62 or 4.72 especially in a game of inches.

How often does a linebacker run a linear 40 yard sprint? Acceleration, acceleration, acceleration. The high and broad jumps are far more accurate measures of how they will translate to position-specific playing speed. Those numbers will correlate far better to coming off of the edge or closing on a ball-carrier.

Then, we get into coverage skills and ability to effectively drop into zone. What about hip fluidity? How well do they snap their hips around? Do they maintain a z? Is their chest over their feet when they cut? Do they maintain a wide base?

You're putting way too much empasis on a 40 time.

 

[primetime]

Long is going to be the 1st overall selection, especially now that Dorsey is starting to fall because of red flags. I wouldn't get my hopes up that he'll fall to the Patriots. He's going to be a heck of a player though.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

1) It's not a slow 40 for a 3-4 outside guy at 270.
2) That position is about explosion. Look at the broad jump and leap, explosive hips. That's what makes a guy an effective 3-4 outside linebacker. It's pretty telling about first step in rush, and finishing speed in persuit. I bet the dude can hangclean with the best of em.

Tell me what our other 270lb lber runs? It's not 4.71. I contend it is too slow for our playing surface. I love the kid as a DE but we need more Colvin's and AD's compared to Vrabel's and Bruschi's as far as team speed. Our pass rush once we lost Colvin was very bad on 3rd down. That's lack of speed.

 

[primetime]

Tell me what our other 270lb lber runs? It's not 4.71. I contend it is too slow for our playing surface. I love the kid as a DE but we need more Colvin's and AD's compared to Vrabel's and Bruschi's as far as team speed. Our pass rush once we lost Colvin was very bad on 3rd down. That's lack of speed.

I doubt McGinest ran any faster than a 4.71 when he was coming out, and he made the 3-4 OLB transition pretty smoothly, no?

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

How often does a linebacker run a linear 40 yard sprint? Acceleration, acceleration, acceleration. The high and broad jumps are far more accurate measures of how they will translate to position-specific playing speed. Those numbers will correlate far better to coming off of the edge or closing on a ball-carrier.

Then, we get into coverage skills and ability to effectively drop into zone. What about hip fluidity? How well do they snap their hips around? Do they maintain a z? Is their chest over their feet when they cut? Do they maintain a wide base?

You're putting way too much empasis on a 40 time.

Shuttle times and cone drills are important too that you seem to forget. Look 40 times are important as well. Example, If Long or Gholston make special teams it's straight line speed about 40 yards and it could be the difference between a TD or a saving tackle . I like Long and Gholston as well but not on our playing surface in a OLBer role over more proven OLBers in this draft like Groves who have good cover skills. Gholston and Long are simply OLB Projects at this point and I don't like there value at 7 over a trade down with extra picks and a playmaker like Groves or whomever. Meaning are these two guys at 7 better than potentially 3 players. Answer to that is ABSOLUTELY NOT, IMHO.

 

[primetime]

Gholston and Long are simply OLB Projects at this point and I don't like there value at 7 over a trade down with extra picks and a playmaker like Groves or whomever. Meaning are these two guys at 7 better than potentially 3 players. Answer to that is ABSOLUTELY NOT, IMHO.

After today's performance, Groves will absolutely not be available in the Patriots trade down, and may not even be available at #7.

I'd take Long (you're drafting him as a LB, not a STer), but would not take Gholston. I want Groves.

 

[PonyExpress]

1) It's not a slow 40 for a 3-4 outside guy at 270.
2) That position is about explosion. Look at the broad jump and leap, explosive hips. That's what makes a guy an effective 3-4 outside linebacker. It's pretty telling about first step in rush, and finishing speed in persuit. I bet the dude can hangclean with the best of em.

Tell me what our other 270lb lber runs? It's not 4.71. I contend it is too slow for our playing surface. I love the kid as a DE but we need more Colvin's and AD's compared to Vrabel's and Bruschi's as far as team speed. Our pass rush once we lost Colvin was very bad on 3rd down. That's lack of speed.

Colvin ran a 4.9 coming out of Purdue. Long has more agility than AD has ever dreamed of. A 4.71 at 272 lbs is awesome. The combination of power, strenght and body control Long possesses is elite, and can be seen not only in workouts but in his on field play, and clearly. Merriman ran a 4.68 and 4.70, and although more explosive doesn't have Long's agility or brains. I said this during the season: if the Pats get C. Long, he will be their most talented defensive player from the moment he steps on the field as a rookie. I like Gholston and Groves too, but I'd like to see their agility drill times just to be safe before annointing them can't miss prospects.

 

[jays52]

1) It's not a slow 40 for a 3-4 outside guy at 270.
2) That position is about explosion. Look at the broad jump and leap, explosive hips. That's what makes a guy an effective 3-4 outside linebacker. It's pretty telling about first step in rush, and finishing speed in persuit. I bet the dude can hangclean with the best of em.

Tell me what our other 270lb lber runs? It's not 4.71. I contend it is too slow for our playing surface. I love the kid as a DE but we need more Colvin's and AD's compared to Vrabel's and Bruschi's as far as team speed. Our pass rush once we lost Colvin was very bad on 3rd down. That's lack of speed.

Dude. AD is a freak, he's not normal. So, by following your logic, Rosie would run a 4.5 40? Maybe on a slow day a 4.6?

He ran a 4.9 before the Bo Jackson incident. That's right, a 4.9. "But, that must mean he's slow!". No, it doesn't. A 40 has little to do with how fast a player will be in pass-rushing situations. Rosie has superior reaction time, an explosive first step and gets good anticipation of the snap count. The 40 is not a good indication of playing speed for a linebacker. Plain and simple. But please, enlighten me, what other drills do you look for in your madden drafts?

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

I doubt McGinest ran any faster than a 4.71 when he was coming out, and he made the 3-4 OLB transition pretty smoothly, no?

Actually, he was by a very slim margin. But we are trying I believe to change to a more speed defense not these projects like Willie, Tedy and Vrabs. I just think we are going to get faster at LB and Safety. Look at Pittsburgh fighting to keep that sloppy field because it helps their defense and we have so far since the field change gotten faster on offense and we are loosing more than likely our best playmaker on defense in Asante. So if we were going to a 4-3 I would put a higher value on Long and Gholston, but like I said I don't see either on being a Franchise player worth possibly 3 players.

 

[ayjackson]

I suspect Chris Long could play ILB for us too. That's a really good 40 time.

Also, Jon Goff had one of the best forty times - I'd love him inside as well.

 

[primetime]

Actually, he was by a very slim margin. But we are trying I believe to change to a more speed defense not these projects like Willie, Tedy and Vrabs. I just think we are going to get faster at LB and Safety.

Jeez, could've sworn we won 3 Super Bowls with those guys.