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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AndyJohnson, Sep 11, 2008.

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  1. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There has been a lot of talk about the value of a victory over the Chiefs, and now we have to play the 'mighty Jets'.

    Both teams were 4-12 last year. The Chiefs were 4-4 with thier best player, who played vs us, and 0-8 without him. For some reason, the MEDIA THINKS the Jets got better in the off-season and the Chiefs did not, because the media likes the Jets moves better. The Chiefs like the Chiefs moves better. Why would we assume the media knows more?

    The Chiefs, without ANY QUESTION IMO are a better defense than the Jets. Not even a question, IMO.
    The Chiefs with Larry Johnson have a better running game than the Jets.
    The Jets have Favre who IMO is as likely to cost them a game as win them a game against an average or better team.
     
  2. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    i wouldve have to respectfully disagree. the jets are far better and mangini is far smarter than herm edwards.last 2 times we played the jets at foxboro, their defense gave brady all kind of looks. sure it was bad weather and sloppy field but they played reallly well both times. plus division games are always difficult ,regardless of records. just my 2 cents.
     
  3. JoePats

    JoePats In the Starting Line-Up

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    The Chiefs D of last year also included the sack leader, no longer on this year's version. I too believe the Jets defense is much better.
     
  4. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    I see where you're going, but I largely disagree. First things first, Jared Allen is gone, plus Larry Johnson is a year older and for all we know may be completely washed up with the number of carries that he had for the few years prior to last year. The Chiefs are probably worse this season than they were last season. OTOH, I don't think anyone can debate that the Jets are MUCH better than they were last season. Pace, Woody, Faneca, Favre, Gholston- Rhodes and others with a year more experience... no way the Jets are a 4-12 team this season. I still think that the Pats are better than them, even without Brady (and I think the Bills are better than them too), but the Jets are way better than the Chiefs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2008
  5. dhamz

    dhamz In the Starting Line-Up

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    Jared Allen was the Chiefs best player. Did he miss 8 games last year?
     
  6. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Jets have some decent playmakers on defense - I wished we had that Revis kid - He was the reason the Jets held on last week

    Kansas City's defense is nothing to write home about since Allen is gone and it will take Dorsey some time but he will be a great DL in time IMO
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2008
  7. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Goota agree with you here Patsgo - Spacecrime ak.a. spacehead is the guy who gets beat up so often in real life he takes his little smartass act in this forum where its safe

    Its sad and pathetic for the little guy - I really feel sorry for him
     
  8. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Can't agree. KC has no QB either - Croyle is just awful. Huard actually improved their play when he came into the game.
     
  9. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    It's interesting how people can argue about something that nobody knows. Both the Jets and Chiefs have so many new people on D, that it's impossible to predict how good each one will be.

    For the Jets: Pace has never player OLB before, has he? So that's a major question right there. Thomas did not have a good year. And Gholston is just a 3rd down pass rusher at this point. So if there's one adjective that describes the Jets' OLBs, it's "questionable". Their ILBs are solid against the run, but not very good in coverage. On the DL, they've got Jenkins playing NT - a career 1-gap DT whose best days are behind him. They've got a rookie at one corner. Their best players are probably Rhodes, Revis, and Ellis. But plenty of weaknesses to attack.

    The Chiefs, on the other hand, have so many young players that you'd think it would give them problems. But with their Tampa-2 system, they do the same thing over and over again. So I don't think youth is such a weakness for them. Dorsey should be pretty good in time. Hali and Johnson are already very good. Page looks like a good player. They have 2 rookie corners plus Surtain came out of nowhere to play for them. So it's hard to say how good they are. Assuming Dorsey lives up to expectations, they should be decent though, because that system lives and dies with the front 4 and the WLB (which is Johnson).
     
  10. K-Ro 25

    K-Ro 25 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    He did last year and looked great in game one. Our best guys on D would be Harris, Revis, Rhodes, Pace, Jenkins, all of those guys IMO are very good at their respective positions. Ellis and Thomas both had a very strong week one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  11. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I watched the NFL Replay last night, your D flashed a lot of talent in Game 1. That Lowry kid is a keeper, he's one I liked for NE, Pace also had a good run in the second half, disrupting the Miami O's efforts. I did note your D still has some growing pains from the number of new bodies being used, and perhaps some of the switching sides and such the media talked about. I expect them to give Cassel and the O something to work on.

    So gang, where does Josh start testing the D?

    - Mia rec by WR: 6
    - Mia rec by RB: 8
    - Mia rec by TE: 12
    Simms talked about the old NE scouting report on Penny that Mangini took and gave to him, it said to force him to throw outside the numbers. Yet TE routes are mainly in the middle.

    Mia ran the ball for 49 yds. I thought their blocking could have been a lot better, it did not appear as if they were doing much zone blocking so it will be interesting to see what the Pats O-line can do to create some holes for Maroney and Morris and Jordan.

    Box_O_Rocks offensive game plan:
    - Use David Thomas, hopefully Ben Watson, and work Kelly Washington from the slot/backfield to test the Jester's middle. Involve Moss and Welker early, Mia does not have WR to match those two. Stick to the run game, even if it doesn't initially work well, the Jester's D looked like it could be run on.

    Favre has three upfield receivers:
    - WR Cotchery: 3
    - TE Franks: 2
    - TE Baker: 2
    Stuckey is out for this game, Coles and Favre had one 5 yd rec. RBs had 5 rec for short yardage.

    Jones averaged 4.6 ypc. Washington is always dangerous.

    Box_O_Rocks defensive game plan:
    Stop the run early, blanket Cotchery, pressure that NY O-line with LB blitzes. Don't forget Coles, but realize he and Favre have had little working time together and are out of synch. Jam those TEs, don't give them a clean release.

    STs: NY is hurting with Nugent out and a street FA in at PK. Mia STs did little to test NY...the guys Hobbs burned for the KR record last season. NE's STs need to bring their 'A' game and win the field position battle. Cassel will be better for short fields, Favre gets impatient and may try to force things if he's working against a bending D on a long field.
     
  12. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Breer was on CST saying he expected BB to pressure with LB blitzes as well, specifically up the middle. We saw Mayo rush from that spot a lot against the Eagles with some success. Breer was basically saying he didn't think Favre was mobile enough anymore to handle a rush up the middle.
     
  13. K-Ro 25

    K-Ro 25 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I agreed with everything you said until Nugent and ST. Nugent is such a ?. One week he can consistently kick off to the goal line, others he cant get it past the 5. His FG kicking makes me uneasy at times If anything Feeley to me is as good and has kicked in the meadowlands before. Overall though good analysis and solid gameplan.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
  14. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Feeley may be more consistent, still there's a reason he was available. I still give the edge to NE, and hope it's a winning edge. Thanks for the feedback.
     
  15. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    What do you think is a reasonably safe bet on a long kick from Gost?
    I think he's fantastic and I think he could sink 2/3 50 yarders.

    It would be interesting how much we could shrink the field with him.
     
  16. patsfanindoltsland

    patsfanindoltsland On the Roster

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    i think the Jets are better, but not by a whole lot. the chiefs will play better than some people think this year. either way, we're still going to crush the jets.
     
  17. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Box...like the game plan..I think starting early and forcing Favre is quite big in it all. ANytime a team can get teh lead, it puts the onus on the other teams offense. With Favre, it's when he makes mistakes. Cotchery is always tough..remember the grab two years ago? Miami's D wasn't all that good and take away a long bomb annd a lucky grab and the Fins may have won. Field position battle is the key as well and STs should shine in it all.
     
  18. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mia shot themselves in both feet and the butt, it might have been a more inhteresting game otherwise.
     
  19. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Did Gholston get any PT last Sunday? I just noticed he had 0's across his entire stat sheet.
     
  20. K-Ro 25

    K-Ro 25 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    They used him primarily as a rush end on passing downs and he even saw some action on neutral downs. He collapsed the pocket a couple of times and almost registered 2 sacks. I would give him a B to B- grade for his first game, especially after his lackluster preseason
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2008
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