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Chiefs getting cold feet with Matt Cassel?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOTSFANINPA, May 29, 2009.

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  1. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    From a so called 36M 6 year contract which was never negotiated to possibly a 1 year tryout could be the reason why KC was relectant to give NE more than a second rounder.

    Whatever the reason is,it appears that KC might have wished they waited a bit longer before doing the deal.

    Unbelievable at it may seem,Thigpen could actually be starting if KCs FO decides he is a better option - That would be embarrasing since Cassel should certainly be making more than Thigpen this season.

    Do the Chiefs have cold feet regarding Matt Cassel? - The Huddle - USATODAY.com
  2. aurakilla

    aurakilla Rookie

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    lol i DOUBT cassel will mind right now, i mean he is going to make like 14 million for this season and if he plays well (which im sure he will) he should get that other contract right?

    and if they start thingpen over cassel.........then i doubt that team improves at all over last year
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  3. PATRIOTSFANINPA

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    If Thigpen plays better than Matt in TC then I don't think its a foregone conclusion that the team is going to go with Matt.

    I think Cassel with his salary SHOULD without a doubt be the starter over a player like Tyler making much less but I dont think Cassel is a lock at the position for Pioli's boys if he has a rough camp.

    Remember,There will be no Welker,Moss on the field and no Belichick calling the shots - This will be a new world for Matty and I really hope he makes the best of it because with the loss of their best offensive weapon in Gonzalez (who was also an excellent blocker) he really has his work cut out for him to repeat last years success story in NE.
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  4. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    If Cassell falls apart or KC decides to start Thigpen over him, it's going to make BB look like an absolute genius... again.
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  5. blackglass3

    blackglass3 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Maybe Matt is refusing the contract? He could be thinking take the one year and then go to Denver where McDaniels is still without a huge QB talent (although Klye Orton could suprise us).

    Far fetched, I assume. But, you never know...
  6. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    What 36M contract? There never was one.

    The Chiefs are giving Cassel a one-year tryout. What's the big deal? If Cassel bombs, they save themselves a lot of money. If he doesn't bomb, they will be paying top dollar for him. It's a calculated risk, but how is it any different than any of the one-year deals the Pats have gone for (except that Cassel is making a LOT more than most of the Pats one-year players).

    But the Chiefs should play the guy who is playing better, Cassel or Thigpen. I don't see it would be anymore embarrassing than playing $386,000 Brady and sitting $8 mil Bledsoe. Playing one guy over another because you are paying him more is dumb.

    But I never was impressed with Thigpen and I never wavered in my Cassel support, so I'm REAL biased, but I think Cassel is going to do very well and make a LOT of money next year.
  7. TruthSeeker

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    This has nothing to do with cold feet. Because some people assumed that there was a desire for KC to make a long-term deal and 3 months later there is no long term deal does not mean that KC has cold feet, it means that people who make assumptions often assume wrongly.

    It makes perfect sense to me from an economic point of view that Pioli would like to see a little more before committing franchise money to Cassel. Sure, Cassel might end up costing a little more or even end up leaving KC (but they would still be potentially eligible for the end of the 3rd round comp pick). But there is a clear danger to KC if, for whatever reason, Cassel doesn't work out and they've already committed huge long-term dollars.

    Admittedly, this is not the way the vast majority of NFL franchises play the game. But that's what makes Belichick and Pioli ahead of the curve...
  8. Deus Irae

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    They can hold onto this exact same article and re-run it again in August. Hell, this is pretty much the same thing people were writing in March, after all.

    God forbid Brady skips a single session during training camp. We'll never hear the end of the speculation about his leg having fallen off.
  9. PatsCanDoIt

    PatsCanDoIt Rookie

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    If this 'cold feet' story is only based on Cassel's contract I call BS.

    On the field I imagine him having a similar season as last year. They still have LJ and Bowe. They signed some vets at the WR position. He may not throw 500 times but more than 21TDs is doable. Leadership in the huddle goes along way for a young team, so I've heard.
  10. RayClay

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    In other words, I have column space to fill, how about a lot of speculation?
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  11. Rob0729

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    I said before he was traded that there was a chance that a team would trade for Cassel and not give him a new deal. It is actually the smart move for the Chiefs. They only gave up a second and got Cassel and Vrabel. They are better off risking that Cassel will have a great year and be very expensive to resign next year than guarantee him the $25-30 million and find out he is a one year wonder. Because when you guarantee something like $25 million, you end up really guaranteeing about $30-35 million because you can't cut the guy for two to three years.

    People thought I was crazy to suggest that a team would trade for Cassel without have a deal in place and that Cassel made the stupid move by signing his tender giving up any leverage he had to get a long term deal. This is why I always thought people who said Peppers should sign his deal are not looking at the big picture.

    Cassel looks to be finding out the hard way why franchised players NEVER sign their tender offer until a new contract and trade are worked out and the contract, trade, and tender offer signings all happen at the same time. I still don't know how everyone in the media have such short memories and seem to have forgotten this fact.
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  12. aurakilla

    aurakilla Rookie

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    yes, idk if that's the case but statistically cassel was the better player last year ( i know he had a MUCH more talented team around him so i know that doesn't mean much ). i guess i just jumped the gun here but after the 2nd jets game last season ide be surprised if cassel wasn't their starter
  13. MoLewisrocks

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    This cold feet story is based on Jason Whitlock's whiny ramblings. The one bad aspect of Scott and Matt landing in KC is that is where that reactionary ninny is based. He has long hated us and therefore was less than thrilled to see either BB protogee land there.

    Matt may not get his long term deal this season because KC isn't even at the cap floor yet. Although Mike Lombardi, who broke the contract story, is sticking by it (as in the parameters are done). They have been waiting for the cash flow to improve once the renovations of Arrowhead kick in. In the meantime they remain cap flush and cash strapped. So letting the cap pay for the QB under the franchise tag this season is not necessarily the dumb move Whitlock thinks it would be. It may be necessary since Scott hasn't found many others this offseason to spend cap on. If Matt likes it there and it goes well, Matt isn't the kind of guy to walk away in a huff come January because they made him play under a $15M tag...

    As for Thigpen, he's somewhat familiar with the players but totally unfamiliar with the new coaches and the new offense being installed. Matt played in what reportedly will be a nearly identical offense with the same terminology used here for 4 years. If I had to guess which leg up will prevail it's familiarity with the offense.
  14. MoLewisrocks

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    I don't think Matt is learning anything the hard way. His situation was unique in that he was a franchise tagged player with no position on the team who tagged him. Had he not signed his tag Bill's hands would have been tied going forward because he couldn't talk to any teams about trading for Cassel. And the only two teams who expressed interest in him beyond KC were not going to sign him to a long term deal themselves, either since they were only interested in flipping him for someone else - who didn't become disgruntled enough to go on the trading block himself for another month. And while that deal couldn't get done soon enough for Bill as is, it wouldn't have been any more doable had one of them needed to sign him, either, since they would have been limited to trying to sign him long term to a deal that suited third party Denver...

    What Matt is is a team player. Bill knew this when he tagged him and Scott knew that and that is part of the reason he traded for him.
  15. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    I guarantee Cassel will be starting in KC no matter what he does in training camp.
  16. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Not sure what you mean by "deal," but Cassel signed his franchise tag, which allowed him to be traded. People (including BB) thought Peppers should sign his franchise tag if he wanted to be traded.

    Long-term deal isn't necessary as long as the price of acquiring the player isn't too high. High second is right at the border line, I would think, but because of the massive amounts of money involved for a QB or DE, it isn't so bad. No way would I give up a first for a one year deal, though.
  17. JoeSixPat

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    I'm trying hard to see the downside of the Chiefs holding off until next year to sign him.

    He's coming off an 11-5 season, though there are obviously still some questions about what he can do with a lesser supporting cast.

    Cassel's already good for $14 million - and in order for him to sign a long term deal he would want to be looking at something in the range of the rumored $36 million guaranteed.

    I HIGHLY doubt that the Chiefs will go 11-5 this season - though Cassel may show that he is a solid QB, I don't see his guaranteed money demands skyrocketing after the Chiefs go 8-8 at best.

    If Cassel plays well he either gets a total of $50 million over the next 2 years (counting this year's franchise figure) or is tagged again next year (total of $32 million over 2 years).

    The Chiefs could put that $36 million into play NOW but they'd be risking about half of that rather than waiting to see what Cassel can do with a lesser supporting cast.

    I'd probably hold off if I were them too.
  18. Rob0729

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    You do spout the Patriots line very well. So if there was a position on the team for Cassel, Belichick could enter into trade negotiations for Cassel with other teams eventhough Cassel didn't sign the franchise tender like say the Chiefs did with Jared Allen the year before? There has never been a franchise player traded other than Cassel where the franchise player signed their franchise tag before the trade and new contract is agreed on. If there were, they would have shot themseleves in the foot.

    Belichick could have negotatiated a trade with any team that Cassel gave him permission to talk to or Cassel's agent could have brokered the trade. Perfect example how Cassel screwed up since he could have dictated where he went for the most money and/or best situation. At worst, he would have still gone to KC and forced them to give him the deal he was expecting.

    Cassel blew it big time if he thought he was getting a long term deal. It could pay off huge next season if he has as good of year next year or close or he could end up losing millions and millions of dollars if he sitruggles. He is probably regretting signing the franchise tender so quickly because he gave up all leverage he had this offseason doing so.
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  19. Rob0729

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    I meant tender. Many people though Peppers should sign his deal because it took away Peppers leverage to block any trade or bargaining chip to negotiate a new deal. Belichick wanted it because it was what was best for the Patriots, not Peppers.

    Cassel is the only franchised player ever traded who signed his tender prior to a trade and new deal worked out and in recent years, he is the only franchised player traded who didn't immediately get a huge long term deal upon going to another team. He is the first franchised player traded who looks to be playing for his new team under the franchise tender rather than a new deal. These aren't coincidences.

    I said from the beginning that Cassel signing the franchise tender was his biggest mistake and nothing has shown that I am wrong. He wants a long term deal and the Chiefs apparently don't want to give it to him. If he didn't sign the franchise tender, he would probably be with the Chiefs with a long term deal (the Pats might have gotten even less in the trade) or released by the Patriots outright because they desperately needed the cap room. It never benefits the player to sign the franchise tender either before they are traded or at least deep into training camp or the preseason.

    I am still waiting for one example where a player signed his franchise tender prior to a trade and new contract being worked out other than Cassel. As far as I know there is none. Not signing the franchise tender worked out far better for players like Jared Allen, Peerless Price, Sean Gilbert, Joey Galloway, etc. than Cassel did signing the franchise tag.
  20. Rob0729

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    The only downside is if Cassel repeats last year's performance or is better. Then the Chiefs will have to pay him probably $10-15 million more (if you include this year's money) than they would have if they gave him a deal now. Granted, if Cassel turns into a proven franchise QB, Pioli won't mind paying him.

    If Cassel takes a step back though which he is bound to without Moss and Welker and a very young team, his price will plumett next offseason. Even if he is a QB that Pioli wants for the next 5-10 years, he probably can get him for less than what he would have gotten this offseason especially if the Lombardi story is true in what Cassel is looking for.
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