CHFF: Brady 1, Warner 2, Manning 3

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, Jan 22, 2009.

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  1. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #12 Jersey

    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  2. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    oh yeah mannings o-line is awful

    warner has had a heck of a running game in zona
  3. PrairiePat

    PrairiePat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    #32 Jersey

    Yep, Ok CHFF.

    You get to pick 1 of those guys to start a team, and you're picking..... Warner?? Good luck with that!

    Typical reactionary journalism - where was this article last year, or the year before, or the year before that when Warner couldn't even hold a starting QB job?
  4. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

    I don't think a comparison between Manning and Warner in the post season is a good measure of how good each QB is. Their playoff experiences have been very different. Warner didn't have to play all of his playoff games in the AFC while Manning has had to play against some very good teams before they got to the superbowl. Warner didn't fair so well playing against a Belichick defense the one time he faced them in the Playoffs.

    I don't like the statistic of passer rating, so I'll post significant career regular season stats.

    176 games
    Comp 3,839
    % 64.4
    Yards 45,628
    Avg 7.7
    TD 333
    INT 165
    TD/G 1.89
    TD/INT 2.0

    109 games
    Comp 2,327
    % 65.4
    Yards 28,591
    Avg 8.0
    TD 182
    INT 114
    TD/G 1.67
    TD/INT 1.6

    Warner's numbers are closer to Mannings that I thought, but not in the most important categories. The offense's job is to score points and not turn the ball over, which makes TD/game and TD/INT the most important stats a QB can have. I'd be interested in seeing the YAC numbers for each, because I think there may be a significant difference. Another factor in determining greatness is longevity and staying healthy.

    In the end, Manning has had much tougher playoff oponents, had significanly better of the most important stats and will put up much higher overall numbers because he's been healthy and will likely have great longevity. To hell with passer rating, Manning will be considered the greater quarterback, and time will only widen the gap between the two.
  5. MassPats38

    MassPats38 Supporter Supporter

    #87 Jersey

    Don't forget fumbles. Manning: 52, Warner: 91. That's a huge differential considering Warner has played in 2/3 as many games as Manning.

    As Warner tends to get the ball slapped out of his hand, I would be amazed if most of those fumbles are not turnovers. Fumbles don't affect the QB rating, but they work the same as an interception in killing a drive. Hopefully, the Super Bowl does not serve as a reminder of that fact.

    And SI may want to credit the quality of the teams Warner played on and not give all the credit to Warner. The Rams were a complete team, with an offense and a defense. The same cannot be said of the Colts, which adds pressure on every offensive series certainly when playing the best defenses the NFL has to offer.

    And I'm not defending Manning. I just agree that it is ridiculous to label someone a better QB when most people likely thought Warner retired when he went to the Giants because you never heard his name mentioned. The "best" QBs do not carry clipboards when healthy. Warner did. You need only look at his career stats and note he has few full seasons, lost the job to Bulger, lost the job to Manning and backed-up Leinart until he played sufficiently poorly to allow Warner to play. That's a strange measure of greatness.
  6. Cartwright

    Cartwright On the Game Day Roster

    Nice to see that some see this for what it is. No arguing, Warner has skills. Comparing him to Manning and elevating him above Peyton is just plain dumb. NOT being able to secure a starters job, the fumbling, AND playing in the NFC are three great reasons why Warner is where he is. Colts/Pats WAS the Superbowl on ALL THREE OCCASSIONS they met in the Playoffs. I cannot explain the Cards run this year except to say Matt Ryan (Rookie QB), Jake (6 TO's) Delhomme, and Donavan (I think I'll **** my pants instead) McNabb. We love Marvin and Reggie, but a healthy Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald is probably the best 1-2 punch in the league. No crying about PM's weapons, but he has never had a guy that can go get it like Fitzy can (or Moss for that matter).
  7. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Personally, I think Manning is better. I don't really have any facts to back it up with, but I think if Warner were the QB for the Colts all this time, the Pats-Colts rivalry would look a heck of a lot more like the pre-2004 Red Sox-Yankees "rivalry".
  8. sieglo

    sieglo In the Starting Line-Up

    Manning is consistently great. Warner, not so much. CHFF just lost a lot of credibility in my eyes. I mean, anyone with eyeballs can see this is horse****. Quite frankly, if I were building a football team from scratch I'd pick Cassel over Warner.
  9. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I would have said Brady, Manning, large quantities of thin air, Warner and I think Rivers is a better QB, in fact.

    But, Warner's heading to the big show for the 3rd time, right? Manning's only been once? That's gotta factor in somewhere. We rank teams based on SB's, so...
  10. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #18 Jersey

    Does that mean Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer are better QBs than Dan Marino? Super Bowls are a team effort. Yes, they require a decent enough QB, but you don't need a great QB to win one. And you can be a great QB and never win one.

    Warner is a good QB but Manning is an all-time great, probably a solid #2 to Brady's #1 when all is said and done. CHFF doesn't exactly hide their disdain for Manning, so take the biased article for what it is.
  11. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I presume they're talking about active QB's. I didn't read the article though.
  12. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

    I'm surprised there are so many thoughtful responses to what is truly an idiotic piece of analysis.
  13. PatsSox363804

    PatsSox363804 In the Starting Line-Up

    I enjoy CHFF, and let's be honest here CHFF is to the Patriots as Fox News is to Republicans, but they took their Manning bashing a little too far with this one. The fact is that without Pro Bowl offensive talent Warner hasn't been able to consistently win, he fumbles too much, and he isn't on the level of Manning or Brady who consistently win.

    Of course if he beats the Steelers in a few weeks I'll be eternally grateful and may reconsider my opinion.
  14. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #18 Jersey

    I know, but that isn't the point. Warner isn't the second best QB in the game.
  15. BritPat

    BritPat In the Starting Line-Up

    #54 Jersey

    A quick question - after the AFCCG where we manhandled their receivers, were the league rules 're-emphasised', or were they changed?
  16. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae Retired Jersey Club Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    Six of one, a half-dozen of the other. When you make a 'point of emphasis' which actually changes the way a rule is being called, you've changed the rule.
  17. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    lol, i love how brady as #1 doesnt even have to be argued anymore...

    CHFF just stated it
  18. RDS11

    RDS11 Practice Squad Player

    #12 Jersey

    I don't see what is so wrong with this article. I think comparing the value of Warner vs Manning for the regular season might be stretch, since Manning has done it over an higher number of games, but Warner's input cannot be denied. He took 2 teams that had been historically bad, the Rams (at least in the last 15 years) and the Cards and lead them to a Super Bowl spot.

    I'm not high on the passer rating either, because good QB on a bad team are penalized for something that is not their fault, but comparing the regular season passer rating and playoffs passer rating for the same player is nonetheless a good tool to see who is underperforming comes playoffs time.

    Super Bowl titles are important for a QB legacy, just ask John Elway...and if Warner wins on Sunday, he might be a future Hall of famer himself.
  19. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

  20. Fixit

    Fixit Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    +12 for a funny use of Steve Timmons.
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