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CHFF: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Jul 25, 2008.

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  1. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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  2. Rob0729

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    I don't think Belichick is as involved with the offense as he is with the defense. He definitely is involved, but you can see on the sidelines during offensive series that Belichick is working with the starting defense with his back turned to the field. I can't think of a single time I have seen Belichick do that with the offense.

    Belichick's imprint is on the offense, but I think Belichick gives McDaniels far more leeway to run the offense than he gives Pees on defense. The addition of Capers may change that this year though. Capers may work with the defense more when the offense is on the field to allow Belichick to focus on the entire game more.
     
  3. Rob0729

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    BTW, CHFF is talking about the defense more because defensive collapses are more of a theme in playoff games than offensive collapses. They point to our first Super Bowl win (the Pats defense controls the Rams until the fourth quarter and then they explode and an offensive drive at the end gets the win), the second Super Bowl (both teams were just trading TDs in the fourth quarter), the 2006 season AFC Championship game (the biggest comeback in playoff history where the Pats gave up 35 second half points), and this past Super Bowl (the Pats gave up 2 TDs in the fourth quarter when they only gave up 3 points the first 3). I disagree about the Steelers game in the 2004 season since the Pats had a commanding lead when they gave up point and Rodney Harrison's INT gave up any chance of a Steelers' comeback. Defensive breakdowns in big games have been a theme even in wins. So it is a valid argument. The offense hasn't had these late game breakdowns and even were the last second winners of two of the games they pointed out.
     
  4. SoCal Pmen

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    Good article. For a long time I've never been a fan of the bend but don't break defense. I hope this year's defense is more aggressive at getting after the quarterback and establishing the line of scrimmage.
     
  5. Aldogg

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    In the Carolina Super Bowl, we did lose both of our starting safeties during that 4th quarter, which is a pretty valid excuse on why they were able to score at will. But all in all, the article was a good read and brought up some valid points.
     
  6. kolbitr

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    I would add that we lost our starting safety in the fourth quarter of the Eagles super bowl as well.
     
  7. BPF

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    The article points out some interesting facts but neglects to mention injuries and also makes it seem like the SB opponents were sisters of the poor. The other team is best the in the NFC and they will score some. Saying all that I do think BB has noticed that some teams have caught on since he's been running the same Fairbanks/Bullough style 3-4 for some time now that's why he hired Capers this past offseason. I'm not saying there will be major changes to the defensive system but there will be new wrinkles.

    He has expanded his offense and gone from an Erhardt/Perkins smashmouth offense to a much more open field game. I think the same will happen on D because if you are not willing to tinker with your schemes here and there and stay the same in the NFL you will have a very hard time gaining the success you want over time.
     
  8. signbabybrady

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    Some good points there. Capers wasn't brought in to overhaul anything but jsut to make things fresher and not so stale.
     
  9. upstater1

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    Late game injuries hurt us against the Panthers, Eagles and the Colts AFCCG loss.

    Do I really need to remind everyone about who was on the field in the Colts' game?
     
  10. BPF

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    True but as BB would say, "it is what it is. Injuries are part of the game and we need to deal w/them like anyone else."
     
  11. fgssand

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    Capers will mix things up a bit....work in progress:

    BB: Dom brings a wealth of experience and on the defensive side of the ball. Also, as a head coach he has worked with a lot of young players through the course of his career and especially in the two expansion franchises he was with at the beginning of their operations. He has been in several different [3-4] schemes, Pittsburgh scheme, Miami scheme with Nick [Saban] and of course what he ran at Houston the past few years. Dom is very experienced in secondary and all around on defense. He has certainly made a lot of the head coaching and coordinator type decisions. He is a big asset from all those standpoints. I don't know how everything will work going forward but certainly he has a lot of knowledge and experience to draw from. We have done that already and I'm sure we will continue to do that as we go forward through the course of the year.
     
  12. letekro

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    How do you figure? 13 points against indy in the second half of the AFCCG, 10 of which were attributable to 60+ yd KO returns. 7 second-half points against the Giants. Fact is, the adrenalin surge is long gone by the 4th quarter of these huge games - ALL defenses are running on fumes. The Pats' O has not been able to take advantage of the weakened defensive units late in games and they share part of the blame.
     
  13. BradyFTW!

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    Generally speaking, in the 4th quarter of a Super Bowl you have a tired defense playing against a very good offense that has its season on the line. At the end of the day, the fact that these breakdowns occur in the SB doesn't matter a whole lot to me as long as the Pats come away with the win. Especially when you look at the injuries and the individual plays that impact those drives. In this SB, for instance, could BB have schemed that ball out of Tyree's hands? Rodney made a good play on the ball and Tyree made a miracle catch. Even before that, Asante had an interception in his hands and dropped it. You can't scheme past stuff like that, so I don't see the point in blaming it on Belichick.
     
  14. DarrylS

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    These arguments are a function of bored, idle press the bottom line here is that players make plays and coaches coach.. in the Giants game players did not make the plays pure and simple.

    With that being said there has been an obvious retooling of the D and I look for it to be more agressive and less "bend but don't break" than it has been in the past. Except for Samuel there are more interchangeable pieces than there has been in the past and more depth..
     
  15. fillylabinga

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    This is a REALLY dumb article. The premise that these 'defensive collapses' is ridiculous--how about the fact that the Pats won 4 out of the 5 games he talks about!!

    I'm sorry but you can't have a collapse in a victory. These are all games where the Pats held double digit leads in the 2nd half and went into some kind of a semi-prevent defense where they were happy to give up yards in exchange for burning time off the clock. Sure, you can argue that BB took the foot off the gas too soon, but when the Pats win, who cares?

    The only one I will concede is the AFCCG against the Colts. Giving up an 18 point lead in a loss (!) consitutes a defensive collapse (injury-marred or not). But it's not like that loss came against a crappy offense--the Colts have had the best offense of the past decade and really caught fire in the 2nd half. I think you just have to tip your hat to the Colts in that one.

    Anyway, the only way BB is going to be more remembered for defensive collapses than Super Bowl victories is if the equivalent to the Colts loss happens again...10 more times...to the Texans...
     
  16. drakesta101

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    Re: Bill Belichick's legacy needs a hug

    Mike Lombardi of Sports Illustrated and his take on the article: (Former NFL Front Office guy/ Was also probably Bill's contact for the Randy Moss Trade)

    I am not sure I get the point Kerry J. Byrne of Coldhardfootballfacts.com is trying to make in his recent column "Disputing Belichick Legacy."

    In the article, he claims that Bill Belichick is overrated as a defensive coach and would just be another coach had it not been for Tom Brady. Excuse me? Kerry, it’s a QB league, and Belichick drafted the quarterback you're claiming is saving his life, Tom Brady.

    Are you then saying that Mike Holmgren and Ron Wolf of Packer fame should give back their titles? Should Bill Walsh remove himself from Canton for selecting Joe Montana?

    "I look at stats all the time, but this article is way wrong. Kerry is making his point based on the Patriots defense almost folding in wins. Kerry is grading the wins like he is a judge in the Olympics. (Like a Russian one grading an American.) A win is a win. And a win in the Super Bowl is what we ALL strive to accomplish.

    Byrne may not like Belichick as a human being and that is one thing, but to question his quality as a coach is really being ridiculous. "

    http://www.lombardionfootball.com/
     
  17. Deus Irae

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    CHFF is normally an excellent site. They simply dropped the ball on this one.
     
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