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Cheaper Gas Won't Help the Economy

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Cheaper gas not the answer
    Experts say lower gas prices should help consumers but won't be enough to jumpstart the struggling economy.

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Gas prices have tumbled 30% from their record high in July and are poised to fall further. But economists say that cheaper gas won't be enough to revive a struggling economy.

    Cheap gas won't fuel economic rebound - Oct. 23, 2008

    Funny, a few here on this board have been trying to say that lower gas/oil prices would help the economy.:rolleyes:
     
  2. STFarmy

    STFarmy In the Starting Line-Up

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    Of course cheap gas won't help PR. Stimulus checks and bailouts should do the trick though!
     
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    PR, you are having trouble with words today. Saying it won't be enough to revive the economy does not equal "it won't help". Of course it will help. Maybe not enough to make everything great but it WILL help.
     
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not sure what other people have said in here, but I know I've said that the drop in fuel will certainly add a couple hundred billion dollars into the economy. Now, have I said that fuel savings alone will save the economy? Nope. I don't remember anyone in here saying that actually. Either way, pumping $500 million a day into the pockets of the average citizen (consumer spending makes up 70% of GPD....) will absolutely help.


     
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think he forgot to take his meds today. :p
     
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    If you & BF were up on your "consumer trends" information, you'd know that consumers are not in a spending mode at all, they are in a savings and paying down debt mode. 90% of what consumers save on fuel will be saved or spent paying debt, not on consumption.

    Also, we are not discussing what individuals will do, we are discussing the overall effect of lower fuel costs. And the bottom line is that surging unemployment, lack of increases in wages due to a stagnant economy and the "fear factor" will keep consumers from "consuming".

    But you don't have to listen to me, just read the article I posted and watch what happens during the upcoming holiday season. It will be ugly, no two ways about it.

    Yes, lower fuel prices can help individuals, but it can't & won't help the economy
     
  7. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Here's why your theory won't work....

    Number of Americans seeking unemployment insurance climbs to 478,000.

    The U.S. Department of Labor reported that initial filings for state jobless benefits increased by 15,000 to a seasonally adjusted 478,000 in the week ended Oct. 18. That's a 44% increase from last year, when it stood at 333,000.

    Jobless claims rise more than expected - Oct. 23, 2008

    So a few more bucks in the hands of some consumers doesn't help when it is offset by huge increases in those filing for unemployment.

    Add to this fact that the ONLY reason fuel prices are down so much is due to a recessionary decline in demand...why is there a decline in demand you may ask? Because our economy and the worldwide economy are all contracting. So fuel decling is due to recession...it can not "help" that which caused it.

    How's that for "meds" fella's?:D
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
  8. Run DMC

    Run DMC In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't know about you, but I like cheaper gas prices. Also, now in retrospect, there were many here (mainly Press Coverage) who bought into the whole "peak oil hypothesis" which was obviously complete horseshyte. These people (Press Coverage) were completely WRONG!!! It was all hedge funds and mainly Goldman Suchs who pushed the price up to $145/bbl.
    OPEC faces 'uphill battle' as oil prices plummet - MarketWatch
    He Called the Peak in Oil Now Bleier Sees 50 Crude in Early '09: Tech Ticker, Yahoo! Finance
    Yet another scam foisted on mouth breathing Americants.
     
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Of course we ALL love cheap gas prices Mossed. I just filled my car yesterday with $2.59/Gal gasoline!! It cost me $32 to fill a tank so empty the "light" was beaping. I almost cried.

    I still don't think there's much oil left in relative terms. Let's not get away from the urgency for alternative fuels...pleassssseeeee!
     
  10. Run DMC

    Run DMC In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    I hear yah, bro. But I am making a point that the entire run to $4/gallon was orchestrated by our good friends on Wall St. You know, those wonderful people your money is now bailing out after they robbed you blind?
     
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We should also use the Fire Hoses, Dogs, Night Sticks and Machine Guns on those bastards............:)
     
  12. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    now you're talkn' Harry!
     
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Seriously dude, did you miss your meds today? Who's discounting that people aren't trying to save, or that the holiday season won't be down this year? This is simple common sense, and basic math. If Bob was paying $4.29 for gas all summer, and now gas is $2.65 (and dropping), that means Bob will have more cash in his pocket, $1.64 per gallon if my math is correct, than he did before. More money into the economy is always a net positive. If gas were still $4.29, then there wouldn't be that additional $500 million a day, for people like Bob to dispose of.
     
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow, you're really acting brain dead today. Then again, this is how you always act on issues like this. You cement a position into your skull, and can't understand what other people are saying. You take them to mean an attack on your position, and argue against common sense. The unemployment filings are irrelevent to the point BF and I are making. If gas were still $4.29 a gallon, things would be far worse economically, than they are when it's $2.65. In consumer dollars alone, it amounts to $500 million per day in savings, that would otherwise be pissed into a fuel tank. This isn't complicated. Now, factor in the cost of petrolium in just about everything that's done, and figure out where that puts a companies bottom line, or their price to do business. Oil has just halved, and gasoline has shot down 40%. Please don't tell me that this fact is not a benefit to the economy.
     
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Speculation clearly played a roll then, just as it's playing a roll now. When you look at the inventories at the time, and where excess supply was with respect to historical figures, the supply/demand side pointed to a higher price per barrel. What's happened is demand has weined, supplies have risen, and speculators, as they did when those facts were inverted, have sold out. There is not an infinate supply of oil, but I don't think that the doomsday peak oil stuff is accurate. Eventually though, it will become harder, and harder to harvest.

    BTW, add in the value of the dollar as a contributing factor. $1.65 versus the Euro then, $1.35 or so now.
     
  16. Run DMC

    Run DMC In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    "Brain dead"...."off your meds"??? whatsup RW? everything ok? Now do you ever see me resorting to calling you names RW? I only save that for foggy the fool.

    I understood your point the first time I read it. And I did say it would help individual consumers, but not the economy as a whole. I think you tried to say "well if prices were higher, the economy would be even worse" but that had nada to do with my point. My only point is lower fuel prices won't be enough to offset all the other negative factores driving the economy down. Of COURSE it would be worse if fuel prices were higher...that's just common sense. but the thread topic is "Cheaper gas won't help the economy". Keep in mind "HELP" means to make better. We are NOT discussing "Cheaper gas prices makes economy not as bad as it could have been"

    Do you know the worst case scenario for our economy is dropping retail prices or deflation? Based upon your theory, you would call that good, but the fact is, it's very bad. Inflation is a pretty bad sign...while DEFLATION is the worst sign we can get. The last time we saw heavy deflation was in the great depression.
     
  19. Run DMC

    Run DMC In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    I actually wasn't referring to you, just some of the life forms that inhabit your fair city.:D
     
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Look dude, and I respect ya a lot, which you know, but you get on these stubborn rants, and your ability to comprehend what's being said suffers. Sorry, but it's like hearing elevator music repeat itself sometimes. This is basic math, and common sense PR. This really isn't complicated to understand. I know you don't like it when someone has the gaul to disagree with any part of your economical opinion, but stop and think about what BF and I are saying.

    All of the other negatives are happening no matter what fuel does. The entire **** storm was already figured when oil was way over $100 a barrel. Oil is used in EVERYTHING. Forget about just your 12 gallon gas tank. Think of every vehicle for every business, every truck on the highway, every boat in the sea, every piece of plastic used on the planet, etc. When those costs drop 40-50%, there is going to be economic relief. Now, compound that fact that is simply indisputable, and add the understanding that energy is fixated into society. We can try to consume less of it, but we cannot function without 90-95% of what we're accustomed to using. Now, you might not think that this is a big deal for an economy, but I do. Not once did I, nor BF say, that fuel would turn around the economy. We simply said that the lowered cost would help. Again, I'm not sure how $500 million a day, in gasoline alone, doesn't "help" an economy.

    I still love ya bro! :D
     

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