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Chavez loses "president-for-life" vote

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Dec 3, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I admit I had my doubts about Chavez, even though I like much of what he's done. But, from what I've read this was a very honest election, with more openness than our own elections. (I read on left wing blogs that their was open source code for electronic voting, for instance.) Indeed, perhaps we have something to learn from the Venezuelans in this regard. Let's hope Chavez really does respect the results as he appears to have done.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071203/ts_nm/venezuela_referendum_dc_30

    CARACAS (Reuters) - President Hugo Chavez crashed to an unprecedented vote defeat on Monday as Venezuelans narrowly rejected his bid to run for re-election indefinitely and accelerate his socialist revolution in the OPEC nation.

    In a fiercely contested referendum on Sunday, voters said "No" to a raft of reforms that would have scrapped term limits on Chavez's rule, boosted his powers to expropriate private property and allowed him to censor the media in emergencies.

    The "No" camp won with about 51 percent of the vote, beating the anti-U.S. president who scored around 49 percent support, election officials said early on Monday.

    Used to winning national votes easily, Chavez conceded defeat but said he would "continue in the battle to build socialism."
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bad day for the Hollywood Wife Swappers.
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure you like Chavez, he's a tyranical ruler who uses the poor as a shield in his chase for absolute power. We all know how you turn a blind eye to any & all evils so long as it suits your personal positions. I was watching ABC news over the weekend, and they were talking about how Chavez was using every government resource to propogandize a yes vote for the election. They're take was that the process was hardly fair.
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow, the so called mainstream media said that?? Find it surprising, thought they all loved Chavez along with the wife swapping liberals from hollywood.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    LOL. The righties seem to like the MSM as long as it parrots their view, sort of like Chavez, I suppose.
  6. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    Patters, how did you feel about his bid for a lifetime presidency? Don't you think that's kind of a negative indicator as to where his head is at?
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I mostly opposed Chavez' referendum, though in fairness, the MSM misreported it--it was not a vote to make him president for life. It was a vote to end term limits so that he could run again in 2012 and thereafter. What do you think of that? Who deceived you and many others into thinking it was a vote to make him president for life? Will you hold those who deceived you accountable?

    At any rate, my opinion of Chavez went up quite a bit because this election was obviously fair, and the reports I've read suggest it was run very honestly. Also, Chavez conceded graciously. He may be a firebrand and anti-American, but you can't say that the people of the third world don't have at least a few legitimate grievances against the western powers.

    I will add that I don't yet fully trust Chavez, but I do like what he's trying to do at least in terms of the poor.
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The two of you sound like little kids on a playground.
  9. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    Actually, GJA, I think you'll find that many people feel that ABC isn't so bad with their coverage. I definitely think that certain mainstream media outlets are biased or have obvious leanings, but it isn't all the time and it isn't universal. I like ABC, and I think they generally are pretty fair. Then again, I grew up watching Jennings, Donaldson, etc. so maybe I am predisposed.

    RW, haven't you said before that you think ABC is pretty good?
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So do you think his previous elections were fair, or fraudulent? BTW, gotta love how Chavez would have been able to silence the media if he declared an emergency. See, if GW made a move to eliminate term limits so he could run in 2008, what do you think Patters would be saying?
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Zzzzz. Another cop out response. You righties must be pretty upset that Chavez lost and Sudan freed the teacher. It appears to disprove some of your thinking. But, really impressed how you now trust the MSM. :rofl:
  12. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    You're right, it wasn't exactly a lifetime presidency, it was an abolition of term limits. I knew that, but I did state it wrong, and that was misleading. I apologize for that.

    They are slightly different, but it is still scary to me. In my study of western civilization, I've just come to the conclusion that anytime a leader makes obvious attempts to stay in power longer is a big time warning sign. It's just never good.
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's the way it was portrayed by the media here:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=chavez "president for life"&btnG=Search

    I agree. If Chavez wants to push his program beyond 2012, he should be developing a successor. That would be much better. My guess is he'll try to get the measure passed at a later time. By the way, both Reagan and Eisenhower opposed term limits.
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    ABC is the most credible & fair source of the big 3. Brian Ross is at ABC and he's an honest broker of information. I've seen him do interviews where he constantly talked about what is inappropriate for him to answer, or to say, and how he's merely providing information on a story, not an opinion. that's what news should be. It's not for enough people sadly. That's why you need to watch/read as many sources as possible (differing is best) and make up your mind for yourself. CBS & NBC are both inherently biased. For CBS all you need to do is look below, and the writing was on the wall with NBC, when their "military analyst" on the nightly news, William Arkin, came out and called soldiers "mercenaries" in a WaPo article he wrote. Here is NBC reporting on the war every night, and their key analyst is a military hater. That just seemed so extremely biased to me.

    The key is the information that is given in a story. Usually the info is legit, or mangled a little bit. Perspective, or slant, is the portion which is most personalized & opinionated. So if you read multiple sources, you'll see the range of information, along with the different slants provided. If you get two ranges and two slants, you can figure out for yourself where you think the truth is. That's what I do.
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Why would I care if Chavez lost? That affects me in no way, shape, or form. As for the Sudan, yeah I'm upset those SP's let her go. I'd have prefered they hand her over to the tens of thousands in the machete carrying mob that wanted to kill her. Afterall, she deserved to be incarcerated in the first place. How dare she name a teddy bear mohammed. :rolleyes:
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Vladimir Putin anyone?
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because it disproves the right-wing insistance that Chavez was corrupt and would fix the election.

    Good, you admit it even though it disproves your point that negotiation does not work.

    Just like the right wing news, you're making them sound crazier than they are. The machetes were ceremonial. I think that's worth mentioning.

    Like I said, a bad day for righty :(
  18. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    I wasn't aware they were ceremonial; where did you read that? I am very curious to check that out.
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I read it in this article:

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/12/03/sudan.teacher/index.html

    "On Friday, hundreds of protesters, some waving ceremonial swords from trucks equipped with loudspeakers, gathered outside the presidential palace to denounce Gibbons."

    Not that I collect them, but friends have given me ceremonial knives. I have one from Finland (of all places) and one from Morocco, which has a completely dull blade because apparently it was illegal for my friend to bring it to the US even in his luggage if the blade was at all sharp. It's about as sharp as a penny as is, so I guess I won't be committing any knife attacks anytime soon!
  20. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    Thank you kindly. On the whole, I think this story was overblown. It does also say in there that "some" were calling for her execution. I don't know what ceremony the swords were used in either; it could be the ceremony to punish disrespectful school teachers by lopping of their heads ;)

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