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Charlie Weis to approach NEs coaching staff for help in the offseason - Pathetic


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Those lousy classes in 2004 and 2005 are on the field right now as juniors and seniors.

That does not excuse losing to freaking Navy and Air Force!

You can't blame it solely on a talent issue, there is a major coaching problem, a D-1 team should never lose to a military academy based on how the teams recruit.
 
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That does not excuse losing to freaking Navy and Army!

You can't blame it solely on a talent issue, there is a major coaching problem, a D-1 team should never lose to a military academy based on how the teams recruit.

Funny.... I don't remember any coaching problem when Weis had this team on the verge of beating USC a couple years back.
 
Those lousy classes in 2004 and 2005 are on the field right now as juniors and seniors.

I like ND, but I'm an Oklahoma fan. But thanks for the sentiment.

You made a point out of saying ND doesn't get the quality of talent anymore. Well, let's look at Boston College's recruiting classes knowing they have been consistenly ranked in the top 25 for several years. On top of that, they are currently ranked #1 in % of athletes who graduate after 4 years in NCAA Div. 1.

Boston College Football recruiting class rank

2002 - #43
2003 - #24
2004 - #24
2005 - #49
2006 - #37
2007 - #46
2008 - #26

So it is obvious their performance (coaching?) has far out performed their talent. As a matter of fact, they've been pretty amazing to accomplish what they have accomplished!

I also contend that they are far better at evaluating talent than most top 25 teams based on these rankings.
 
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/ncaa/11/19/notredame.patriots.ap/index.html

Charlie seems to be so embarrased by his coaching performance at Notre Dame that he will be heading back to NE in the offseason to discuss what he is doing wrong and what coaching techniques he is missing - does he not have the talent to figure it out himself without help from BB and staff?.

Charlie can you say 'No Tom Brady' and 'No Brady Quinn' to carry your sorry fat arse to success? - Now you got to do it will all JAGS,lets see what your brain can figure out since ND dumped all that money in your lap for what - and embarrasing 1 win season?

I always thought Charlie was as good as the talent surrounding him as OC and HC ,now you can easily see he was overated as the OC here IMO.

Brady Quinn and Tom Brady made his offensive plays look good - not so much him being a genius as so many former Patriots coaching staff members feel once they are on thier own.

I agree 100%. Look what Daniels has accomplished with Brady and CO. Do we really think Daniels would be this successful with out them?
 
Belichick talks to his friends in the offseason. Saban, Groh, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

Exactly, if he did nothing he would be a fool.. most successful people have an inner circle of people they run things by, CW is no different.
 
The fact is, it's HARD to win at Notre Dame.

Here's why:
1-No redshirts: Virtually ever other program in the country allows them, but ND doesn't. When a kid comes to ND, their eligibility clock starts as soon as they hit campus. This is a huge obstacle.

Lore. Tom Zbikowski redshirted in 2003 and is currently a 5th year senior.

2-Academics: A lot of high profile recruits simply can't get in.

That's false as well. ND does have very high academic standards, but Lou Holtz got them in, and Charlie Weis is getting them in, too. Look at the top recruits, and ND is in the mix for most of them. Academics is definitely not an excuse for mediocrity.

3-No JUCOs: Junior College players can be used to shore up key positions while you wait for a freshman to develop. ND doesn't recruit JUCOs.

Neither does Michigan. We've had 2 that I can remember in 15 years. OSU? Don't recall JuCos there either. JuCos are recruited chiefly by schools looking to rebuild quickly. They are not relied on by top programs to sustain excellence.

4-No conference affiliation: Some would say this doesn't matter, but conference play allows for weak spots in your schedule.

I would say playing Navy, Air Force, Stanford, Duke, etc. allow for weak spots as well. It's no surprise that Penn State dominated college football as an independent and has struggled since joining the Big Ten. As an independent, you can tailor your schedule to your liking. Schedule 1 or 2 big time games to get the national exposure, a couple of mid-level teams that look good on paper, and some fluff. When you join a conference, the mid-level and low-level teams are familiar with you and can gameplan much better.

5-A challenging schedule almost every single year: This year's ND sched. hasn't been as tough as some, but typically ND plays a very difficult schedule year in and year out as opposed to some top teir BCS teams who may have only two or three games a year that the results of are in doubt when you look at the sched. before the season.

Again, ridiculous. Look at ND's schedule this year. The "elite" teams out of the bunch are USC, Michigan and Penn State. The latter two are really not all that good. Then there are some mid-level teams like BC (who is worse than their record indicates), Purdue, GT and MSU. Finally, they have the fluff with Navy, Air Force, Stanford and Duke. It's the exact same as playing in the Big Ten. Hell, if ND joined the SEC, they would get smoked on a weekly basis.

ND does have a lot of tradition and prestige on its side, but as a practical matter, those don't count for much on game day. ND should have been better this year (most who follow CFB knew this would be a down year) but I'm not surprised he has struggled. He's recruited very well which is what he will need to do to turn it around.

Charlie has struggled not because of talent, but because he doesn't know what he is doing. As someone who has been in both college and pro football, I can tell you they are night and day. He took his college team through camp with minimal contact. He tried to install special gameplans. This isn't the NFL. ND can continue to bring in highly ranked classes. It doesn't matter. They have 25 rivals 4-5 star players on their roster right now, more than almost all of the teams they've lost to. You think Air Force is rocking a team of 4 stars?
 
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I agree with what Michigan Dave said. In addition, ND has benefits to recruiting due to each and every game being televised nationally. Don't underestimate that at a college level. Being able to tell a high school kid that they can guarantee that each game he plays in will be on National TV is a huge advantage. BC, for example, can't make nearly the same claim.

Also, because they aren't in a conference they can PICK their own schedule. They choose when and where they play the good teams so they can schedule a cupcake game right before their big game. That's an advantage, not a disadvantage.

What your seeing is Charlie playing with his own players and with his own coaching. He team doesn't lack talent, it lacks fundamentals and discipline. That's a coaching problem.

It's smart for him to get advice in the off season, every coach does it, even Belichick to an extent.

Of course, I'm bias since I'm a Michigan fan. Go Blue!
 
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/ncaa/11/19/notredame.patriots.ap/index.html

Charlie seems to be so embarrased by his coaching performance at Notre Dame that he will be heading back to NE in the offseason to discuss what he is doing wrong and what coaching techniques he is missing - does he not have the talent to figure it out himself without help from BB and staff?.

Charlie can you say 'No Tom Brady' and 'No Brady Quinn' to carry your sorry fat arse to success? - Now you got to do it will all JAGS,lets see what your brain can figure out since ND dumped all that money in your lap for what - and embarrasing 1 win season?

I always thought Charlie was as good as the talent surrounding him as OC and HC ,now you can easily see he was overated as the OC here IMO.

Brady Quinn and Tom Brady made his offensive plays look good - not so much him being a genius as so many former Patriots coaching staff members feel once they are on thier own.

Why is that pathetic? BB has met with Jimmy Johnson, Urban Meyer, Nick Saban and others to assist him and them. It's all part of getting better. I think you're being ignorant.
 
Charlie has struggled not because of talent, but because he doesn't know what he is doing. As someone who has been in both college and pro football, I can tell you they are night and day. He took his college team through camp with minimal contact. He tried to install special gameplans. This isn't the NFL. ND can continue to bring in highly ranked classes. It doesn't matter. They have 25 rivals 4-5 star players on their roster right now, more than almost all of the teams they've lost to. You think Air Force is rocking a team of 4 stars?

Let me ask you...those blue chippers you refer to...what year are they? We both know that a couple soph/frosh can make plays for a team, (Tim Tebow) but when the core of a team are inexperienced, it spells trouble. Weis did pretty well for himself for two years when he had decent to mediocre players. It's naive to call him a bad coach.

Don't bury ND or Weis yet.
 
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Let me ask you...those blue chippers you refer to...what year are they? We both know that a couple soph/frosh can make plays for a team, (Tim Tebow) but when the core of a team are inexperienced, it spells trouble. Weis did pretty well for himself for two years when he had decent to mediocre players. It's naive to call him a bad coach.

Don't bury ND or Weis yet.


Decent to mediocre players? The talent is there. You can win with young players in today's game. You just need good coaching.

I started at the bottom of the ND roster on their website, and started working up. At the 1/2 way point, just looking at seniors, you have Zbikowski, Wooden (US Army All-American), Vergaglia (top 100 recruit), Travis Thomas (US Army All-American, SuperPrep All-American), Laws (US Army All-American, ESPN All-American.)

I stopped there because I need not go further. This is a myth that has been shot down multiple times on CFB forums.

Weis is in WAY over his head.
 
Decent to mediocre players? The talent is there. You can win with young players in today's game. You just need good coaching.

I started at the bottom of the ND roster on their website, and started working up. At the 1/2 way point, just looking at seniors, you have Zbikowski, Wooden (US Army All-American), Vergaglia (top 100 recruit), Travis Thomas (US Army All-American, SuperPrep All-American), Laws (US Army All-American, ESPN All-American.)

I stopped there because I need not go further. This is a myth that has been shot down multiple times on CFB forums.

Weis is in WAY over his head.

So you just named 5 players on a roster. That convinces you he is a bad coach?

In over his head? A guy who has been a Coordinator at two different NFL teams and won 3 Super Bowls? I don't know what your beef is, but you are reaching.
 
Decent to mediocre players? The talent is there. You can win with young players in today's game. You just need good coaching.

I started at the bottom of the ND roster on their website, and started working up. At the 1/2 way point, just looking at seniors, you have Zbikowski, Wooden (US Army All-American), Vergaglia (top 100 recruit), Travis Thomas (US Army All-American, SuperPrep All-American), Laws (US Army All-American, ESPN All-American.)

I stopped there because I need not go further. This is a myth that has been shot down multiple times on CFB forums.

Weis is in WAY over his head.

Ok, let's put this another way. He had no problem winning in his first two seasons. The problems began, not surprisingly, when the last couple of recruiting classes brought in by the previous coach became the core of the team and were relatively talentless.
 
I know BB is the best but Charlie should be able to do it on his own now.

Becoming a HC and making big $$$ should be sort of like moving out of your parents home,once your gone you should know how to live on your own.


You should save that critique for the Patriots staff too since they were down at Florida a couple of years ago to learn about zone blocking...you know, the thing we've been adding since then.

Coaches network and do this stuff all the time. The Patriots do it too. Ivan Fears was still going back to Syracuse to talk to people up until a few years ago.
 
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/ncaa/11/19/notredame.patriots.ap/index.html
Charlie seems to be so embarrased by his coaching performance at Notre Dame that he will be heading back to NE in the offseason to discuss what he is doing wrong and what coaching techniques he is missing - does he not have the talent to figure it out himself without help from BB and staff?.
Ever held a management position in any organization? If so, you'll know that learning and learning to adjust is constant or you will find yourself out of a job quickly.

At the NFL level, BB had to do this after his experience at Cleveland, Vermeil did this after his first season at St. Louis, and almost all successful coaches at any level have an inner circle they can trust to provide some objectivity as sounding boards. Weis is being intelligent by reviewing his whole approach by reaching out to those who he knows are knowledgeable and who will be honest with him. Pretty smart, and it's surprising he didn't do this sooner. The most effective times to do this are when you appear to be successful.
 
Mike Francesa on WFAN told his audience that he had a conversation with Weis before the season started and Weis expected his team to be bad this year. Probably not this bad, but bad. He said ND will be average next year and above average the year after.
 
I can almost guarantee you Belichick does not ask those guys for advice on how to coach successfully - Unless you have been living under a rock for the past 7 years,Belichick has done a pretty good job at coaching and I don't think it has been with the advice of any of the guys you mentioned - Do they talk? - Yes as friends - do they each ask how they can be better at thier job? - not likely.

Whhhaaatttt?

Every offseason, we get stories in the papers about how HE travels (HE goes to them) to Urban Mayer, Nick Saban, Kirk Ferentz, the guy at Fresno State, etc to watch how they run their camps. Not to mention Jimmy Johnson and coaches of otther sports. When he goes to Spring Training in FLA does he spend his time with the players? Nope.

There's much about which to critique Weis (especially if you have been a contractor working on his home, or one of his Doctors). This isn't one of them.
 
Whhhaaatttt?

Every offseason, we get stories in the papers about how HE travels (HE goes to them) to Urban Mayer, Nick Saban, Kirk Ferentz, the guy at Fresno State, etc to watch how they run their camps. Not to mention Jimmy Johnson and coaches of otther sports. When he goes to Spring Training in FLA does he spend his time with the players? Nope.

There's much about which to critique Weis (especially if you have been a contractor working on his home, or one of his Doctors). This isn't one of them.

Exactly, many of the coaches at certain football camps are there to pick the brain of other coaches. That's why you see coaches travel to camps all over the country. It isn't for the money.
 
So you just named 5 players on a roster. That convinces you he is a bad coach?

In over his head? A guy who has been a Coordinator at two different NFL teams and won 3 Super Bowls? I don't know what your beef is, but you are reaching.

I named 5 guys on a roster after looking at 7 profiles. Those are seniors only. You asked about the upper-class talent, and I had about 3 minutes before I took off for lunch and found 5 all-americans out of 7 profiles at the bottom of their roster.

My point is that ND still has more talent than Purdue, BC, MSU, etc. All teams that beat them. ND has 2 Weis classes already enrolled and ready to play. Willingham's classes were still top 30. These other schools sure as hell don't have that luxury going for them, and are still not 2-9.

In over his head? Yes. For sure. Being a coordinator in the NFL and being a head coach in college are night and day. The man has never been a head coach ANYWHERE before in his life. I have experience in both college and professional football. It is a HUGE difference. Charlie's approach to camp this season cemented that he just doesn't get it, and he can't run that operation like a pro team. He won because Brady Quinn was able to get rid of the ball. Charlie's biggest win at ND was the loss to USC in 2005. He still hasn't beaten a team that finished the season ranked in the top 25.
 
I'm pretty sure that this Senior class is the last of the Ty Willingham recruits. Wiess has had back to back stellar recruiting classes. He landed Clausen and played him as a true Freshmen, he will make large strides next year.

And he contiues to get high caliber recruits...
http://www.uhnd.com/articles/2007/recruiting/floyd-commitment-huge-for-irish/

Nothing worng with talking to BB, this is a plus for the Pats, check out the Pats roster and it is littered with BB coaching tree alumns players..

Saban's LSU players, Hill's Fresno State guys (hows that Logan Mankins pick doing for you) Remember when we all said "logan who" on draft day? This is a direct result of BB staying in touch with his "guys". I say bring Charlie in, help him out, and this way we can draft some more of his guys.
 
I named 5 guys on a roster after looking at 7 profiles. Those are seniors only. You asked about the upper-class talent, and I had about 3 minutes before I took off for lunch and found 5 all-americans out of 7 profiles at the bottom of their roster.

My point is that ND still has more talent than Purdue, BC, MSU, etc. All teams that beat them. ND has 2 Weis classes already enrolled and ready to play. Willingham's classes were still top 30. These other schools sure as hell don't have that luxury going for them, and are still not 2-9.

In over his head? Yes. For sure. Being a coordinator in the NFL and being a head coach in college are night and day. The man has never been a head coach ANYWHERE before in his life. I have experience in both college and professional football. It is a HUGE difference. Charlie's approach to camp this season cemented that he just doesn't get it, and he can't run that operation like a pro team. He won because Brady Quinn was able to get rid of the ball. Charlie's biggest win at ND was the loss to USC in 2005. He still hasn't beaten a team that finished the season ranked in the top 25.

Your bias is blinding you to the reality about the talent on that team. That's a horrible squad he's trying to coach.
 
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