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Charles Darwin film 'too controversial for religious America'

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IcyPatriot, Sep 12, 2009.

  1. Rossmci90

    Rossmci90 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    With all the mountain of evidence supporting evolution, i still find it astounding that evolution is not accepted as fact by many people in America and that Darwin would be considered controversial. But then again, even our respective currencies shows the difference between our nations stance towards evolution and religion.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. DarrylS

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    Not quite sure why we do not, as consumers, have a choice..

    It is available on Netflix, and it is in my queue.. or however you spell it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
  3. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I don' think that they are mutually exclusive. I think that you can believe in a divine being as well as evolution. Religion answers the questions that science doesn't and has been that way for thousands of years. As the paradigms shift, so does religion.
    Science still can't answer how it all began at the every beginning and they haven't created life yet.........
     
  4. Rossmci90

    Rossmci90 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Of course, because the theory evolution does not, nor does it intend to, explain abiogenesis.The theory of evolution describes the diversity of life. That evolution, which as i said has mountains of evidence, is still up for debate in America says alot.
     
  5. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Try, try again. It's not a big case of interminably boring complex arguments -- not even about "how many angels fit on the head of a pin :nono: " -- it's about the logic of Original Love. Love starts somewhere. Love has an origin. Knowing that origin is the key to everything else BECAUSE then it becomes something anybody can reproduce; thus eternal Heaven. That's the destination and nobody will be satisfied until they reach it. Nobody wants to be on the outside looking in.



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  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    What if the party's better on the outside?
     
  7. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    What if it ain't??



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  8. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Damn good post.

    Technology/science has moved way too fast the past 100 years for many humans to handle.

    Yet, I do think religions will continue to evolve to fit in known science with their core beliefs.

    Of course, the whole thing will be moot a century or two from now, when we find out that the whole time God was just an advanced alien race =D

    Also, the reason we see ourselves separate from the world, is because our entire doctrine is hegemony, and escalating increasing wealth disparity around the world for our own benefit. Most in this nation are fine with it. The global wealth disparity has increased by orders of magnitudes since WWII, mostly due to US created global institutions.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2009
  9. PatsFanInVa

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    This use to be a "dirty little secret." I have heard that it is now enshrined in a "doctrine of American Exceptionalism." This merely proves that people who know six-syllable words can also say "Because I said so." (And because of our behavior the whole group will have to suffer....)

    The "doctrine" is this: God likes us best, we're blessed in the way the Israelites -- according to the Israelites' founding documents -- were blessed. I am aware that you, Mav, are nobody to pull into a discussion of Israelites, Jews, or anything on that continuum. I'll say this, however: whatever one believes regarding the ancient Israelites, the Jews of today, etc., what we see in this "doctrine" is one of the core principals of much of the right's responses to temporal (as opposed to theological) developments.

    To wit, the American right has drummed up "American Exceptionalism" to explain that we can't be judged as other nations are judged. This is because we have pleased God, and, being pleased, God has accorded us a place of primacy in the world.

    This particularly dangerous and virulent mental virus, obviously, descends from 19th century "manifest destiny," writ even larger. A whole continent is not enough; no, now the plan is for a whole world under God's (America's) hegemony.

    The trouble is that fact and fantasy have a way of bumping up against each other. The disproof of "American Exceptionalism" bit by bit is precisely what precipitated the naming and positing of the "doctrine." It is dragged out of the shadows of assumption and into the light of day as a "doctrine" as believers begin to fear its disappearance.

    Again, the believers harken back to the Hebrew bible, sometimes explicitly and sometimes implicitly. The Falwells and Robertsons of the world appear just after 9/11/01 to tell us that the external enemy has been given victory because some people get busy with the wrong gender; they echo, in other words, the Prophets' scolding about the triumphs of Assyria over Israel and Babylon over Judah being predicated on the peoples' own backsliding (although the Prophets were much more concerned with helping the sick, the widow, the orphan, etc., than making sure gay people don't have sex....)

    Biblical misadventures aside: the viewpoint that the U.S. is a second Israel/Judah, subject not to the usual international order but to judgment by God, is a simple and comforting one, but is useless in the day-to-day world of said interactions.

    Think about what those who adhere to said viewpoint actually advocate: After 9/11, they said it's America's fault we were attacked. Holders of the doctrine oppose scientific knowledge, while those nations that embrace it are ceded the future. Oh yeah, advanced scientific knowledge, that's fine for China or India, but here we concern ourselves mostly with how religious we can make the schools, and how to keep our own president from addressing them...

    Why? Because everything we have is our birthright, based on a relationship to God, one that is in no way established, any more than it is for the Taliban.

    Ultimately the people of America need to defeat this unfortunate tradition we'll generously call a line of reasoning. It needs to be beaten by staunch adherence to "rendering unto Caesar," as someone once said: That which is secular in nature needs to be pursued in the secular world, not suborned to some subjectively held viewpoint of alternate history.

    The other possible outcomes? We could make ourselves ignorant and backward and God could sweep us to global everlasting victory... or... there is one event that moved Judaism forward from triumphalism to a more thoughtful dialog with the natural world, with our own inner natures, and with God himself. It is an event we mourn to this day, the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem.

    "American Exceptionalism" seeks to replay the notion of a chosen people, replacing the ancient Jews with modern-day America. Those who believe in the doctrine have no problem with America's failure or destruction, because, you see, it would be the "sinners'" fault anyway.

    For the rest of us who see this tradition playing out, it is worth remembering that in secular terms -- whatever the value of such a history in retrospect -- it is not desireable for one's people to be defeated and scattered. That, and the opposite pole of global hegemony, are the quite biblical outcomes inherent in this doctrine, and they have no place in modern political thought (as in keeping as they may seem in a local place of worship.)

    PFnV
     
  10. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    "American exceptionalism" has been completely mis-interpreted by some to justify arrogance and dominion by privilege, but I see it very differently: as the RESPONSIBILITY to give God's blessing to the rest of the world who wants it. So far there have been plenty of takers of God's blessings through Americans' efforts, and that's OK -- the way it should be -- as long as a little gratitude and appreciation for the SOURCE of those blessings is given ...... and the SOURCE is NOT "Americans" ALONE; it is by God's hand and grace THROUGH faithful Americans offering a hand up, not just a hand out.



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  11. kali3

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    This is the best publicity stunt the producers of the film could ever come up with.

    It will turn a boring go nowhere documentry into a finacial hit because they will bill it as too controvesial for America.
     
  12. wistahpatsfan

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    I thought the same thing at first.

    I happen to like biographical non-fiction books and movies, though. Plus Darwin's the main character...one of my favorite people.
     
  13. wistahpatsfan

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    You're making mah point!
     
  14. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    So you choose to wing it and hope there's nothing to be concerned about. Tell me: would you walk blind-folded in the passing lane of Mass Pike at 5 PM???



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  15. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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  16. wistahpatsfan

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  17. PatsFanInVa

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    And just to think... all them thar stars an galaxies an whatnot, jus' for us to gawk at!

    I should have mentioned American Exceptionalism assumes Terran Exceptionalism :)

    PFnV
     
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    Please, God.
    Don't
     
  19. IcyPatriot

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    :nosmile: ... I knifed my own thread. :attention:
     
  20. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    'S cool. The questions will still be there when you're ready to look at them again. They never go away. Like the sun and all them stars .... billions and trillions and quadrillions and .......



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