Changes To Offense To Keep Brady Healthy?

[Deus Irae]

This is a pretty good group. I understand they'll all be rated lower than Joe Thomas was last year but he barely allowed a sack; if we were talking about a 3rd rounder then I would feel differently. With our scouting, coaching and Mankins next to him I think we could get it done especially as all three are considered good pass blockers.

I've been on the "take a tackle" bandwagon for a long time, but I don't want him on the left. Light made the Pro Bowl because he deserved it. He's played the position quite well. I'd much rather have the right tackle position shored up without shaking up the rest of the '5 layers' than have the entire line have to deal with the turnover at both tackle spots. Let the tackle get acclimated for a couple of seasons while Light is still at his best. Then, when Light starts to decline, switch them over or let Light move on and get another right tackle.

 

[BelichickFan]

I like the thinking and I think that's a good option. I'm liking the sound of Branden Albert - OG or OT I guess - and its making me more pissed that Goodell robbed us of #31.

Trading w Chicago is our best bet, #14 and #44 would suit us, we can address OL and CB in the first two picks, the rest of day 1 can be devoted to OLB and ILB.

I like Albert - I bet he plays Tackle in the NFL; are there ANY 6'7" Guards ?

But, yeah, trading down, taking a OT then going hot after D with four picks (including one from the trade down) in rounds 2,3 is nice.

From reading Draft Countdown, I really like Chris Williams if we could get him a little nastier. In addition to being smart and a team leader, they say he's a great pass protector, quick and nimble :

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/chriswilliams.html

 

[Joker]

I gotta disagree, Angry Deity...after that performance I witnessed in Arizona, I want a real shut down LT so Brady at least doesn't have to worry about his blind side....move Light inside or to RT

 

[BelichickFan]

I've been on the "take a tackle" bandwagon for a long time, but I don't want him on the left. Light made the Pro Bowl because he deserved it. He's played the position quite well. I'd much rather have the right tackle position shored up without shaking up the rest of the '5 layers' than have the entire line have to deal with the turnover at both tackle spots. Let the tackle get acclimated for a couple of seasons while Light is still at his best. Then, when Light starts to decline, switch them over or let Light move on and get another right tackle.

Starting the rookie on the right side is fine. You still upgrade one position and upgrade OL depth.

However . . . I would get him on the left side as soon as he's ready. If that's 2008 then I'm putting him there as a rookie. If that's 2009 or 2010 then so be it.

 

[Deus Irae]

I gotta disagree, Angry Deity...after that performance I witnessed in Arizona, I want a real shut down LT so Brady at least doesn't have to worry about his blind side....move Light inside or to RT

Mankins was the problem against the Giants, not Light.

 

[Joker]

Yes, Mankins got beat up the middle but Light got beat with speed rushes and Brady got planted from the blind side a number of times...remember...5 sacks...11 additional QB hits...not a good day all around for the line. Light is a good tackle but I want a real stud dominator at LT as Brady ages here.

Of course, it's just my viewpoint...I understand yours too...but I think Mankins is staying put, and just had a rough game. I really feel Light is a liability against the top speed rushers in the league

 

[Deus Irae]

Starting the rookie on the right side is fine. You still upgrade one position and upgrade OL depth.

However . . . I would get him on the left side as soon as he's ready. If that's 2008 then I'm putting him there as a rookie. If that's 2009 or 2010 then so be it.

I can see that, to a point. BB knows more than we do, surely, but I really like the tackle selection. As for when to make the shift, Miguel has Light listed as being signed through 2010, so that doesn't seem too long a time for me.

 

[dhamz]

Yes, Mankins got beat up the middle but Light got beat with speed rushes and Brady got planted from the blind side a number of times...remember...5 sacks...11 additional QB hits...not a good day all around for the line. Light is a good tackle but I want a real stud dominator at LT as Brady ages here.

Of course, it's just my viewpoint...I understand yours too...but I think Mankins is staying put, and just had a rough game. I really feel Light is a liability against the top speed rushers in the league

One thing to remember is line play is always a team effort. Many times the plan on a speed rusher is to use his speed against him and push him wide of the QB. It works if the interior line does its job because then the QB can step up. If they don't pushing the end rusher gets the sack.

 

[IcyPatriot]

It wasn't a compliment. In order to make your assumption, you have to be so clueless and/or biased as to ignore every other factor involved and, even then, you can't even get a 1:1 correlation, nevermind determine causation.

But you feel free to ignore weather and injuries, as well as opponent's played, and pretend that you have a point.

I'm not pretending ... I know Brady was beat up.
Perhaps if you go back to all the what's wrong with
Brady threads and you will see others were thinking the same thing.
I think there's a 1:1 correlation in what fans were seeing and how Brady was playing.

 

[BradyManny]

I like Albert - I bet he plays Tackle in the NFL; are there ANY 6'7" Guards ?

It was the Mayock video that got me excited about him and he did say that Albert could play Tackle at the next level. As you referenced the same clip in another thread, I'll assume you saw his play on the screen pass - that screamed Pats to me. A big guy that quick and athletic - that'd be just perfect.

 

[BradyManny]

Mankins was the problem against the Giants, not Light.

Furthermore, Brady does a great job of stepping up in the pocket when an edge rusher manages get around Light. For all the crap Light takes around here for struggling with the Jason Taylors of the world - and who doesn't struggle with them - I'd take that kind of pressure any day over the rush that the Giants generated against the interior of the line.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not pretending ... I know Brady was beat up.
Perhaps if you go back to all the what's wrong with
Brady threads and you will see others were thinking the same thing.
I think there's a 1:1 correlation in what fans were seeing and how Brady was playing.

And once again, you show a lack of insight. Brady's increased struggles occurred for many reasons. Only a fool discounts the change of game plans, the change in the weather, the loss of the team's only true blocking tight end, etc... There was no 1:1 correlation between Brady boo-boos and his statistical decline.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The coaches should have adjusted bottom line.

Think back to the Steelers game where in the first half we had trouble keeping them out of Brady's face, he was clearly rattled and the result was almost the same as in the SB except for the major breakdown by Pittsburgh's safety on the Moss TD. In the 2nd half we come out with a trick play to take advantage of their aggressiveness and then go to a quick-strike passing game where Brady carved up that secondary. No reason we couldn't have done the same thing to an inferior Giants secondary.

I had a sick feeling all year McDaniels might blow it in the case of a close playoff game and sadly enough thats just what happened.

 

[Deus Irae]

The coaches should have adjusted bottom line.

Think back to the Steelers game where in the first half we had trouble keeping them out of Brady's face, he was clearly rattled and the result was almost the same as in the SB except for the major breakdown by Pittsburgh's safety on the Moss TD. In the 2nd half we come out with a trick play to take advantage of their aggressiveness and then go to a quick-strike passing game where Brady carved up that secondary. No reason we couldn't have done the same thing to an inferior Giants secondary.

I had a sick feeling all year McDaniels might blow it in the case of a close playoff game and sadly enough thats just what happened.

Hochstein was already in the game. The only adjustment left was to pull Mankins and put another backup in his place, across from Tuck. Which Patriots backup OG was going to shut down Tuck that night?

 

[BradyManny]

Hochstein was already in the game. The only adjustment left was to pull Mankins and put another backup in his place, across from Tuck. Which Patriots backup OG was going to shut down Tuck that night?

I still contest that's not the only adjustment. It seems like everyone wants to blame one party in the offensive breakdown in that game, but it's not that simple. The coaching staff deserves a heavy dose of blame itself. They could've gone to a spread, short passing game (it was the short and intermediate passes in the 4th that drove them down the field), or tried lining up in the power formation. I know Spach wasn't active, but O'Cal has been used as "3rd TE" before. Frankly, I understand the notion that execution trumps everything, but I'm not willing to hand out McD an A for effort in terms of gameplanning the SB. Some of the blame falls on his & BB's shoulders for not adjusting quick enough. Likewise, I reluctantly hand out some of that blame to Brady for looking deep when there wasn't time for it - but again, that ultimately goes back to the coaching staff as well.

It was a breakdown all around, the entire offseason should feel blame, sure, the interior OL should feel the most of it.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Hochstein was already in the game. The only adjustment left was to pull Mankins and put another backup in his place, across from Tuck. Which Patriots backup OG was going to shut down Tuck that night?

It's not about replacing anybody, it's about adjusting the gameplan to keep Brady from exposure to so many hits. Our defense held the Giants to 3 points in 3 quarters yet we abandon the run game. If you want to keep passing stick to the screens and we had Welker underneath all day.

 

[Deus Irae]

I still contest that's not the only adjustment. It seems like everyone wants to blame one party in the offensive breakdown in that game, but it's not that simple. The coaching staff deserves a heavy dose of blame itself. They could've gone to a spread, short passing game (it was the short and intermediate passes in the 4th that drove them down the field), or tried lining up in the power formation. I know Spach wasn't active, but O'Cal has been used as "3rd TE" before. Frankly, I understand the notion that execution trumps everything, but I'm not willing to hand out McD an A for effort in terms of gameplanning the SB. Some of the blame falls on his & BB's shoulders for not adjusting quick enough.

When you go to a spread formation and your interior line can't hold, your quarterback ends up injured and watching the backup from the sidelines. The reason it was successful in the 4th quarter was because the Giants were fatigued. Had they tried that consistently early in the game, Matt Cassel would probably be New England's starting quarterback in the upcoming season because the Giants would have killed Brady.

I'm not saying that the offensive game plan was perfect. Frankly, I thought it was terrible. This team's aversion to putting the #1 and #2 WRs in motion to get them off the line without contact, and the stubborn refusal to use Stallworth and Moss on quick slant patterns baffled me all season. Would I have liked to see the team running slants right over the area Tuck was coming in from? Absolutely. Do I think it would have made a difference? Probably not, because Mankins wasn't just off, he was awful.

 

[BradyManny]

When you go to a spread formation and your interior line can't hold, your quarterback ends up injured and watching the backup from the sidelines. The reason it was successful in the 4th quarter was because the Giants were fatigued. Had they tried that consistently early in the game, Matt Cassel would probably be New England's starting quarterback in the upcoming season because the Giants would have killed Brady.

Brady was getting killed b/c the plays were taking too long to develop. The spread would've allowed him to get rid of the ball before taking that beating. Brady can get rid of the ball faster than anyone - but not if they're running plays that aren't designed that way.

Look at it this way, the O-Line was a complete sieve even with 1 or 2 extra blockers, so I see two options - a) add more blockers, run the ball and pass off of play action b) or just run the spread, short passing game, and try and get the ball out before the O-Line ultimately collapses and Brady gets his head torn off.

We're in agreement on the quick slants. In both the 4th quarter of the Colts & Giants game, it felt like running a quick slant/post/incut to Moss was a guaranteed completion. He might prefer vertical routes, but next season, I hope to see more of the quick & intermediate stuff.

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady was getting killed b/c the plays were taking too long to develop. The spread would've allowed him to get rid of the ball before taking that beating. Brady can get rid of the ball faster than anyone - but not if they're running plays that aren't designed that way.

Look at it this way, the O-Line was a complete sieve even with 1 or 2 extra blockers, so I see two options - a) add more blockers, run the ball and pass off of play action b) or just run the spread, short passing game, and try and get the ball out before the O-Line ultimately collapses and Brady gets his head torn off.

We're in agreement on the quick slants. In both the 4th quarter of the Colts & Giants game, it felt like running a quick slant/post/incut to Moss was a guaranteed completion. He might prefer vertical routes, but next season, I hope to see more of the quick & intermediate stuff.

The way to slow down a rush is to run screens or let it wear itself out. Unfortunately for the Patriots, screens didn't work and it took more than 3 quarters for the Giants to start getting gassed because they rotated the DL effectively. It was a lousy game plan prepared by New England, made worse by them having two weeks to prepare it. I just don't think that it mattered much after Neal went down and Mankins morphed into a turnstile.

As for the slants, I've always thought that getting Stallworth the ball on a slant, with his RAC abilities, was worth at least one big gain a game. The Patriots brain trust knows a lot more about this stuff than I do, so I tend to keep quiet about such things, but I've never understood why this wasn't done.

 

[Joker]

BTW, great thread you guys...after all this nonstop spygate crap it's really satisfying to talk REAL FOOTBALL like we do best.