Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/2

[JoeSixPat]

This has probably been posted and discussed already but just in case others missed it I figured I'd throw it out there.

There's a thread discussion who's going to be available from other team cuts to provide depth at WR. Generally speaking the best players are the last cut - and this year the NFL has pushed back the dates of mandatory cutdowns.

The final cutdown date, when the majority of the best players will be cut is very late - September 2nd. So people expecting to get some quality guys into camp sooner rather than later might have to wait.

I think we'll still be active in skimming the waiver wire - especially with the prediction that 600 players will be cut on September 2nd - but don't expect any of these guys to walk in and make an immediate impact.

They will still be valuable for depth on the roster at many positions of need, and would likely be up to speed by October.

Per Tom Curran:

The Patriots are down to 88 players on their active roster. Clubs need to cut to 75 players after their third preseason game. The Patriots have nine roster exemptions however -- they get to keep guys a little longer because they sent players to NFL Europe -- and will only have to cut down to 84 players.

All clubs have to cut to 53 players by Sept. 2. In the past, there was an earlier cut to 75 players, then a cut to 65 after the third preseason game. Then came the final cut to 53.

With the NFL taking out that additional cutdown day, the number of players cut by Sept. 2 promises to be huge. Perhaps as many as 600 players league-wide will be untethered. For example, if the Pats make only minimal cuts before Sept. 2, they'll have to release 31 players.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Should be an interesting exercise to see who teams are targeting off the waiver wire. I wonder if there is an enterprising reporter out there who will give us a story on which players got the most waiver claims?

 

[pats1]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

Curran - you're wrong.

Doubly.

1) There haven't been 3 cutdowns for years. Last year, it was 65, then 53.

2) NFLE Exemptions now expire with the 75-man cutdown.


It's explained better in this thread:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=39488

And this article from ESPN:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2389062

There was one significant change in the roster cutdown before the start of the season and one after the final cutdown.

In a vote of 29-3, owners allowed teams to keep 75 instead of 65 players on their roster in the first cutdown, which is annually the Tuesday after the third preseason weekend. The trade off was the NFL Europe exemptions that allowed teams to bring more players to camp expire at that time. The reason for the change is simple. For the most part, the NFL Europe players weren't going to make the team but teams keep them to the final cut in order to have bigger rosters for the preseason finale.

Now, teams can cut the NFL Europe players in the next to last cut and have 10 extra players who could either make the team or be candidates for the practice squad.

The second part of the roster proposals is that the eight-member practice squad was extended four years to 2009. Before last season, teams could only keep five players on the practice squad.

And thirdly, no, the last cut isn't late at all.

Last year, it was September 3rd.

In 2004, it was September 4th.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Should be an interesting exercise to see who teams are targeting off the waiver wire. I wonder if there is an enterprising reporter out there who will give us a story on which players got the most waiver claims?

My feeling is that this whole dynamic makes player trades/swaps a worthwhile alternative to many teams who want to get a look at players in their systems earlier, and give them a bit longer to adjust if they work out.

Just as interesting will be a situation in which the Patriots are making the bulk of their cuts - as many as 31 - on September 2nd.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

My feeling is that this whole dynamic makes player trades/swaps a worthwhile alternative to many teams who want to get a look at players in their systems earlier, and give them a bit longer to adjust if they work out.

Just as interesting will be a situation in which the Patriots are making the bulk of their cuts - as many as 31 - on September 2nd.

I'm not sure I buy the trade alternative just for an earlier look in your system, that seems counterproductive. Cleveburgh and Zona traded for players who they badly needed - it was also interesting that an agent who has a history of working well with the Pats was involved and got two of his veterans into a position to earn a starting job elsewhere. The Shanle thread seems to indicate the same thing was working in that trade.

Bringing in players for an extended test drive is still a waiver/FA function as I see it. It will be interesting to see who our Yo-Yo player will be between the 2nd and 10th if BB has someone he wants to see practice.

 

[pats1]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

Tom is actually triply wrong.

The Pats have 10 exemptons, not 9.

Chad Jackson has a bonus exemption, which is better explained here:

http://www.jaguars.com/Story/3745.asp

Fred from Portland, OR: Why are the Jaguars allowed 90 players on their roster. You mentioned that the limit is 80 players and I only know of five players with NFL Europe exemptions, so why are an additional five players exempt?

Vic: OK, let's start with four Jaguars who played in NFL Europe: Konrad Dean, Marques Ogden, Jimmy McClain and Kenny Jackson. They are all on the Jaguars training camp roster and practicing as exempted players. The Jaguars were granted two more NFL Europe exemptions because of the type of players they allocated to Europe: Players who were on the Jaguars' roster last season. Those two exemptions are termed rookie/first-year player exemptions, which means you can place two players on your training camp roster who are either rookies or first-year players. Most teams assign those exemptions to first-year players they know they won't cut, which allows the team to maintain the flexibility of that type of exemption for the duration of the preseason. The Jaguars have assigned the rookie/first-year player exemptions to Byron Leftwich and Rashean Mathis. They probably won't be cut this summer. OK, that's six exemptions, which takes us to 86 on the roster. Chris Brown and Akeem Akbar are two other NFL Europe players who are on the Jaguars roster, though they are not practicing because they were assigned to the Europe “injured†list and have yet to be declared healthy. That makes 88, right? Then there are Matt Leonard and Deon Humphrey, who were placed on the reserve/injured list just before the start of training camp. The maximum number of NFL Europe exemptions allowed is 10, plus one for an NFL Europe League “national,†which is a player other than a U.S. citizen who played in NFL Europe. Is that more than you ever wanted to know about NFL Europe? It's more than I wanna know.

 

[mgteich]

I believe that the final cut is always the weekend before the season starts. I believe that a couple of years ago, it was on Tuesday. The Saturday date gives everyone a full day to pick up players from other teams and set up their Practice Squads.

As a practical matter, many veterans aren't picked until after Game One, so
that their salary isn't guaranteed.

 

[pats1]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

Curran is also incorrect in another aspect.

The Pats, before the Gramatica cut (when that article was written, yesterday 8/22), had 86 players on their active roster, not 88.

He was likely counting Branch and McGrew, who are both on reserve lists.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

Curran is also incorrect in another aspect.

The Pats, before the Gramatica cut (when that article was written, yesterday 8/22), had 86 players on their active roster, not 88.

He was likely counting Branch and McGrew, who are both on reserve lists.

Aren't the Pats down to 85 players? They have cut John Condo, Gemara Williams, Todd Pederson, and now Gramatica as well as trading Gorin. Also, Mel Mitchell no longer counts since he was IRed with McGrew.

Also, aren't Zuriel Smith and Earl Charles on some special NFLE Reserve list since they were injured there? Is Ray Ventrone on that list as well? Do they count against the roster?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Something didn't sound right to me too - thanks for confirming

... but I still wonder how Curran has us going from 84 to 53 (hypotheticaly) with 31 cuts all on September 2nd

 

[DaBruinz]

Something didn't sound right to me too - thanks for confirming

... but I still wonder how Curran has us going from 84 to 53 (hypotheticaly) with 31 cuts all on September 2nd

Curran must have had a brain fart because the most any team will have to cut from the 1st cut down to the 2nd cut down is 22. The most any team has to cut from active roster to the 1st cut-down is 15. (Maximum roster size is 90 active). Granted, you can have MORE than 90 with players on the PUP and Reserve lists.

In the mean time, the Pats will have to cut or IR 9 more players between now and the 1st cut-down. And it could be 10 or 11 if Branch or Pass join the team between now and then.

 

[Miguel]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

The Pats have 10 exemptons, not 9.

Chad Jackson has a bonus exemption, which is better explained here:

I have 9 NFLE exemptions
Steitz
Charles
Henry
Jackson
Musinski
Zuriel Smith
Freeman
Spann
Ventrone

When will Curran post a correction to the mistakes that he did make??

 

[RoadGrader]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

When will Curran post a correction to the mistakes that he did make??

probably on Sept. 1

it's tough to keep your dates / facts straight when you've got one foot out the door

Proving that ill-timed departures aren’t the sole domain of the Boston Globe’s Sports Desk, the Providence Journal is about to lose one of its most recognizable writers, in the talented, Tom E. Curran.
[FONT=&quot]
Several Patriots’ beat insiders have confirmed to Shots that Curran will be leaving the ProJo by September 1 to take a job with the fledgling NBCSports.com. (Currently, if you got to www.nbcsports.com, you are re-directed seamlessly to www.msnbc.com’s (largely lame) Sports page. That is supposedly changing at the start of next month as NBCsports.com begins to brand itself around its newly-christened Sunday Night NFL package.)[/FONT]

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/archives/shots/curran_events.php

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

I have 9 NFLE exemptions
Steitz
Charles
Henry
Jackson
Musinski
Zuriel Smith
Freeman
Spann
Ventrone

When will Curran post a correction to the mistakes that he did make??

Miguel -
Todd Pederson was also exempt. But he has since been cut.

 

[pats1]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

Miguel -
Todd Pederson was also exempt. But he has since been cut.

You mean Todd Mortensen, right?

Todd Pederson is the former Falcons kicker.

 

[pats1]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

I have 9 NFLE exemptions
Steitz
Charles
Henry
Jackson
Musinski
Zuriel Smith
Freeman
Spann
Ventrone

When will Curran post a correction to the mistakes that he did make??

That's correct now, I forgot that Mortensen got cut.

But either way, the NFLE exemptions don't really matter anymore, now that they expire on Tuesday.

 

[pats1]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

Curran must have had a brain fart because the most any team will have to cut from the 1st cut down to the 2nd cut down is 22. The most any team has to cut from active roster to the 1st cut-down is 15. (Maximum roster size is 90 active). Granted, you can have MORE than 90 with players on the PUP and Reserve lists.

In the mean time, the Pats will have to cut or IR 9 more players between now and the 1st cut-down. And it could be 10 or 11 if Branch or Pass join the team between now and then.

The active roster limit is actually 80, not 90.

So the most a team without any IR or reserve/PUP (but NOT active/PUP) or NFLE exemptions have to cut on the first cutdown is 5.

 

[Pats726]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

Aren't the Pats down to 85 players? They have cut John Condo, Gemara Williams, Todd Pederson, and now Gramatica as well as trading Gorin. Also, Mel Mitchell no longer counts since he was IRed with McGrew.

Also, aren't Zuriel Smith and Earl Charles on some special NFLE Reserve list since they were injured there? Is Ray Ventrone on that list as well? Do they count against the roster?

Todd who????? Diud I miss an acquisition and cut??? I believe the 3 count against the roster now...Ventrone could be PUPed...the others?? I am sure some NFLE exempt list...

 

[pats1]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

Aren't the Pats down to 85 players? They have cut John Condo, Gemara Williams, Todd Pederson, and now Gramatica as well as trading Gorin. Also, Mel Mitchell no longer counts since he was IRed with McGrew.

Also, aren't Zuriel Smith and Earl Charles on some special NFLE Reserve list since they were injured there? Is Ray Ventrone on that list as well? Do they count against the roster?

Right, but at the time of press for Curran's article, before the Gramatica release, they were at 86.

McGrew actually wasn't IRed - he's on the reserve/left camp list. Branch is ont he reserve/did not report list. Mitchell and Shelton are on the IR.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/reiss_pieces/2006/06/ventrone_banged.html

June 09, 2006

Safety Ray Ventrone has been placed on the "exempt/NFL Europe" injured list after undergoing shoulder surgery.

The procedure is expected to keep Ventrone out of action at next week's mandatory team minicamp, according to agent Joe Linta. Ventrone's availability for the start of training camp is also in doubt.

Ventrone, who spent the 2005 season on the Patriots' practice squad, is one of nine safeties vying for a spot on the team's roster. He played a full season in NFL Europe this spring.

In addition to Ventrone, running back Earl Charles; wide receivers Rich Musinski and Zuriel Smith; and cornerback Antwain Spann are Patriots players who also have been placed on the "exempt/NFL Europe" injured list.

So yes, they are on the NFLE/injured list, but they were already exempt up until Tuesday.

Spann and Musinski were activated from it, but still exempt, a day after Reiss wrote that.

However, I believe in order to gain exemption past this cutdown date, the guys on the exempt/NFLE injury list have to be placed on the reserve/NFLE injury list, which knocks them out for the season.

Cedric James spent two years on that list before he was cut this past spring.

 

[pats1]

Re: Change in Roster Cutdown date means most players/best players won't be cut til 9/

Todd who????? Diud I miss an acquisition and cut??? I believe the 3 count against the roster now...Ventrone could be PUPed...the others?? I am sure some NFLE exempt list...

He means Todd Mortensen.

Those 3, plus the other NFLE players, don't count against the active limit until the cutdown this Tuesday.

Ventrone can't be PUPed, even though he hasn't practiced yet. He needed to have started on the PUP.