Welcome to PatsFans.com

Chain Store Fallout

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Dec 17, 2008.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    27,299
    Likes Received:
    194
    Ratings:
    +552 / 6 / -24

    #18 Jersey

    As we move forward through this massive reduction in consumer spending, we're also going to see a shift in where our dollars are spent.

    People may choose to buy their printers at WalMart rather than an office super store. They will probably buy their pet supplies less and less at a Pet supply store and on & on...this story will go.

    We probably won't see multiple Office Super Stores, Pet Stores, Auto Parts Stores and the like. This is going to be a survival of the fittest, but this is not a good thing because it means fewer jobs and less choice for the consumer.

    There may be enough room for Office Depot and Staples to survive, but expect to see local office suppliers to take a beating. Also, the auto supply chains are poised to see either a huge fallout or a merger or two.

    There just aren't enough dollars out there to chase all these retailers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2008
  2. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,038
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +120 / 0 / -1

    It might be painful in the short term but it is a good thing in the long term.
     
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,922
    Likes Received:
    286
    Ratings:
    +778 / 17 / -23

    #24 Jersey

    That part of this is no different from a normal recession. Sure this is extra bad with the dump housing has taken but there's no point in showing how bad this recession is/will be by using examples of what happens in every recession.
     
  4. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    27,299
    Likes Received:
    194
    Ratings:
    +552 / 6 / -24

    #18 Jersey

    You have a point, but keep in mind our economy has gotten less and less competitive over the last 30 years, so this actually is very different in many ways. Now we have the large corporations that put other companies out of business years ago, on the verge of collapse.

    Our economy has never been more streamlined than it is now. And when you think about it, nothing that happens today is the "same as what's happened before". Our economy looks nothing like it has in years past. So to say that is wrong because the consequences are different every time.
     
  5. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,038
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +120 / 0 / -1


    The economy is not less competitive. In fact its more competitive then ever in the retail sector. With almost zero barriers to entry I can find numerous distributors for almost anything I want with a click of the mouse. As for these big corporations that are on the verge of collapse, these are not the first big corporations to collapse and certainly not the first big corporations to collapse during a recessions.

    The fact of the matter is that our retail outlets will shrink. They have to shrink. Currently we are a nation of consumers and have an infrastructure that reflects that. From all accounts, our days as hyper-consumers are coming to an end, or at least going on hiatus. As such, I really don't understand any suprise that this shrinking of brick and mortar retailers should happen.
     
  6. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,287
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    I havent bought chains in quite a few years.
     
  7. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,876
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +49 / 16 / -3

    Heyyoooooo
     
  8. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,337
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    walmart is bad for the economy. can you say monopolies? give it a few more years and they'll put more people out of business.

    walmart is good for the individual but bad for other chains
     
  9. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,038
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +120 / 0 / -1


    Walmart is not a monopoly. In some cases, however, it is a monopsony. That is where Walmart earns it reputation, which is probably well deserved.
     
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    27,299
    Likes Received:
    194
    Ratings:
    +552 / 6 / -24

    #18 Jersey

    No offense, but you are quite simply...WRONG. I've spent 25 working the retail industry and the last 12 as a market analyst in this business. There are most definately "Barriers to trade" and the biggest is economies of scale.

    20 Years Ago
    Woolworth's
    Caldor
    Bradless
    Zayres
    5 & Dime
    Mammouth Mart
    Many More

    Today
    WalMart
    Target
    KMart

    Yeah....I guess that's "more competitive than ever! :rolleyes:

    Twenty years ago, there were over 40 supermarket chains in Massachusetts alone. Take a look today and you'll see that there might be about 15 left (chain = 5 stores or more)

    There used to be over 100 CPG brokers in MA and today there are about 20.

    There used to hundreds of mom & pop hamburger joints...well, I could go on & on but why bother?

    "More Competitive" means more companies operating to compete. Please name 3 industries that have MORE companies competing other than high-tech.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2008
  11. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,287
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    This week at WalMart, a sale on Monopoly!
     
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    27,437
    Likes Received:
    321
    Ratings:
    +897 / 7 / -3

    Yeah, but 20 years ago you couldn't shop on the internet.
     
  13. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,287
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    Neither could Governor Spitzer.
     
  14. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    3,038
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +120 / 0 / -1

    Again...you've totally ignored the internet retailers. Plus there are a whole lot more then just WalMart, Target and KMart today among bricks and mortars either. Costcos, BJs, Super Stop& Shop, Kohls, JCPenny just off the top of my head. Just because a bunch of poorly run crappy stores went out of buisness 20 years ago doesn't mean they were someplace you would want to shop.

    That doesn't translate to competition relative to the consumer. I don't have 10 supermarket chains within a reasonable driving distance of my home and that is much more then existed 20 years ago. Nobody ever had 40 different options. That only meant the market was more fragmented on a larger scale and certainly does not translate to better choices for the consumer.

    So what's the right number to have?

    There are still plenty. I have no idea where you live but I grew up in Arlington and I can tell you with absolute certainty that there are more mom & pop burger/pizza shops in that town then there were 20 years ago.

    Speaking about MA:
    Biotech
    Green Energy
    Hotel & Hospitality
     
  15. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,876
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +49 / 16 / -3

    I haven't studied other retail markets, but one area that I can definitively say has massively conglomerated is media. Yes the internet has opened up massive amounts of competitors, but in terms of actual customers, there is virtually no competition when it comes to media.

    The problem with just saying "internet retailers" is that the internet is a very fractured place where at any given time there are thousands of retailers nobody knows about, and whenever they gain any traction, they get bought out by bigger entities.

    So when PR says it's "less competitive now" he's saying that instead of having the bulk of the market share being spread amongst a plethora of mid-size companies, you now have the bulk of the market share spread amongst a very select few in a virtual oligopoly, with thousands of tiny, yet technically "competitive" retailers that in reality can't possibly compete with the big boys.

    This argument usually devolves into a personal opinion as to whether the diluted quality and variety that comes with conglomeration is outweighed by the affordability and access that massive corporations provide. I can say that when it comes to media, the negatives of conglomeration definitely outweigh the positives, since it plays a unique role in informing our society.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2008
  16. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,337
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0


    you forgot Ames and The Fair
     
  17. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2006
    Messages:
    8,337
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0

    it's only a matter of time before they put their competition out of business. with these bad times walmart's stock actually grew. go figure. in bad times people look for the cheapest prices and walmart becomes even more successful
     
  18. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,876
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +49 / 16 / -3

    "Never never, never pay full price....at Marshalls"

    I remember good old Bradlees too.
     
  19. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    27,299
    Likes Received:
    194
    Ratings:
    +552 / 6 / -24

    #18 Jersey

    Your entitled to your opinion, but I can tell you that you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

    I listed all MASS MERCHANDISERS that existed 20 years ago and you came back with "Costcos, BJs, Super Stop& Shop, Kohls, JCPenny". Just an FYI...Costco & BJ's are "Club Stores" and Stop & Shop is a Grocery retailer. None of these 3 are mass merchandisers.

    When you compare Stop & Shop, you compare them to other retail GROCERY chains like Shaws, Hannaford or Market Basket. I can also assure you that 20 years ago, WHERE EVER you lived in Eastern MA, you had a much greater choice of grocery retailers to shop at.

    I grew up in Weymouth and we could shop at;

    Stop & Shop
    Angelo's
    First National
    Purity Supreme
    Big Buy

    All had stores in a 5 mile radius of where we lived. If you grew up in Boston, the choices were even greater;

    Stop & Shop
    Angelo's
    First National
    Purity Supreme
    Big Buy
    Flanagans
    Tropical Food
    Johnny's Foodmaster
    and others.

    Again, you're debating with someone who has spent their entire career in the retail industry and frankly, you don't have a clue.

    The internet really competes with other internet companies. It represents a miniscule percentage of the "brick & mortar" business. The demographic of the internet buyer are completely different than any other. And almost 100% of major retailers have an internet site.

    At this moment in time, we are living in the LEAST competitive retail market that has ever existed and the longer WalMart prospers, the worse off we all are.

    If the industry were in fact MORE competitive than ever, we would have more people than ever employed in these industries and the fact is, there are far less.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2008
  20. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    27,299
    Likes Received:
    194
    Ratings:
    +552 / 6 / -24

    #18 Jersey

    Excellent point Biggles! And think about this...for every shopper who switches from JC Penney, Macy's or even Target to WalMart, the economy suffers because;

    1. Products are cheaper which results in diminishing GDP

    2. WalMart workers make far less than the other retailers, so the more people employed by WalMart, disposeable income declines & the less consumer spending there will be

    3. WalMart workers have little or no health care, so the more people they employ, the more strain there is on gov't services and the lower the demand will be for health care products and services.

    4. No retailer imports higher percentage of their products from Asia...which has eroded US manufacturing and CPG sales.
     

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>