Chad Johnson

[Sciz]

You've got to be kidding me. Anyone who seriously thinks Ochocinco should start--on any team--over Wes Welker has to be delusional. He can run any route? Big deal. The guy can run all the routes he wants, but he doesn't get open.

Ocho got out-performed by old-*** Terrell Owens last year, who never played in the Bengals' offense. Plus, Ocho seems to be incapable of being a team player when he doesn't get enough looks. I like the guy a lot--he's entertaining--but suggesting he should be on the field in place of Wes Welker is a terrible idea.

You're talking about taking our most reliable wideout off the field just so we can open up the playbook a little more. It doesn't make any sense. We already have a guy who can run every route, and it's Deion Branch. He also outperformed Ocho last year, despite being traded mid-season.

On 3 more targets in 1 fewer game, Johnson put up 17 fewer yards than Welker on 19 fewer receptions. He averaged 2.5 yards more per reception than Welker. And all of that was with Carson Palmer throwing him the ball. For somebody who can't get open, those are awfully comparable stats, and in a much worse situation.

Reliability is up for debate too. Welker caught more of his targets by a good amount (69.9% to 53.2%), but you have to keep in mind where these passes were. About 87.2% of Welker's receptions came 10 or fewer yards past the line of scrimmage. Only 58.2% of Johnson's were within 10 yards. In addition, Johnson actually had a far lower drop percentage, dropping only 8 of his 126 targets (6.3%) compared to Welker dropping 13 of his 123 (10.6%). I wish I had targets-by-distance stats, but only have total target numbers. It'd be great if somebody could supply them though.

As for why I'd advocate for Johnson over Welker, the biggest reason is simple: 11-20 yard sideline routes. Welker put up 214 yards total on the 11 passes he caught further than 10 yards down the field. Johnson caught 28 passes more than 10 yards down the field, for a total of 469 yards. Welker caught 29 passes that ESPN defines as along the sideline last season. He only put up 9 YPC on those routes, for 263 yards. Johnson caught 42 sideline passes last season for 489 yards and 11.6 YPC. And again, this was all with Carson Palmer, who was doing his best Chad Pennington impression last season. Put him in an offense with Tom Brady, and those numbers go up.

Yeah, Chad's a character. But as we've seen with a lot of these WRs, they can keep their mouth shut for a year or two when the team is winning. Chad has a personality, but he's not stupid (or at least I thought so until the bull incident). If Belichick signs him on the condition that he behaves, then he'll be able to control himself for at least a year.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

On 3 more targets in 1 fewer game, Johnson put up 17 fewer yards than Welker on 19 fewer receptions. He averaged 2.5 yards more per reception than Welker. And all of that was with Carson Palmer throwing him the ball. For somebody who can't get open, those are awfully comparable stats, and in a much worse situation. Reliability is up for debate too. Welker caught more of his targets by a good amount (69.9% to 53.2%), but you have to keep in mind where these passes were. About 87.2% of Welker's receptions came 10 or fewer yards past the line of scrimmage. Only 58.2% of Johnson's were within 10 yards. In addition, Johnson actually had a far lower drop percentage, dropping only 8 of his 126 targets (6.3%) compared to Welker dropping 13 of his 123 (10.6%). I wish I had targets-by-distance stats, but only have total target numbers. It'd be great if somebody could supply them though. As for why I'd advocate for Johnson over Welker, the biggest reason is simple: 11-20 yard sideline routes. Welker put up 214 yards total on the 11 passes he caught further than 10 yards down the field. Johnson caught 28 passes more than 10 yards down the field, for a total of 469 yards. Welker caught 29 passes that ESPN defines as along the sideline last season. He only put up 9 YPC on those routes, for 263 yards. Johnson caught 42 sideline passes last season for 489 yards and 11.6 YPC. And again, this was all with Carson Palmer, who was doing his best Chad Pennington impression last season. Put him in an offense with Tom Brady, and those numbers go up. Yeah, Chad's a character. But as we've seen with a lot of these WRs, they can keep their mouth shut for a year or two when the team is winning. Chad has a personality, but he's not stupid (or at least I thought so until the bull incident). If Belichick signs him on the condition that he behaves, then he'll be able to control himself for at least a year.

You're comparing apples to organges on so many levels...

 

[Sciz]

You're comparing apples to organges on so many levels...

Well the whole point of that post was to say that the offense needs an average starting-quality orange as opposed to the best apple in the NFL, so good?

 

[Calciumee]

[/U][/B]


Lee Smith is that Big Guy that u refer to. they better carry 4 TE's.

Wrong Thread!!!

 

[Patspsycho]

If the contract Chad signs is non-guaranteed, of the "hire-at-will" type, and the money is heavily incentive-laden, then I don't have a problem with him at least trying out.

 

[jukes]

Chad has a similair relationship with bill than moss did, if not better he's not a trouble maker and he's confident player we need more leadership on the offensive end.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Well the whole point of that post was to say that the offense needs an average starting-quality orange as opposed to the best apple in the NFL, so good?

Fair enough. But is he really that much different? I mean he averaged 12.4 YPC last season, and 12.6 YPC the last 3 seasons. Ocho's bigger than Welker and Branch, but he's not a deep threat and not sure what he'd offer that we don't already have.

I'd rather see Taylor Price on the field, similar size to Ocho with more speed and less drama.

 

[Yehoodi]

Despite Johnson's ego (I refuse to call him Ochocinco) I'd have no concerns about that aspect of his signing. Belihick and Johnson have always expressed mutual personal and professional respect for each other and I think Chad could fit in here.

Where I have more doubts is the remaining physical skills of the 33 year old WR.

Can he still stretch the field and be the deep threat WR that the Patriots need?

I have some serious doubts about that - if Belichick has the same doubts I don't expect he'd sign him. If he thinks there's a chance he can still stretch the field, and Johnson accepts an incentive laden contract, then there's little downside for the Pats.

We do need a deep threat - but I'm not sure if Johnson or the other WR rumored to be on the Patriots radar, Steve Smith, can fill that role at this stage of their career.

so i ask you . . . are you a Cassius Clay guy or a Muhammad Ali guy?

 

[JoeSixPat]

so i ask you . . . are you a Cassius Clay guy or a Muhammad Ali guy?

Good question!

Ask yourself - why did Ali change his name?

Ask yourself - why did Chad Johnson change his name?

While I guess both made the change for reasons of "personal philosophy" let's just say I view Johnson's name change as slightly less noble than Clay's religious and civil rights motivated reasons

Then again, both view themselves as "The Greatest" - though only one is correct.

I guess even Chad agrees with me as apparently he's going back to "Johnson"!

Chad Ochocinco of Cincinnati Bengals says he's changing last name to Johnson - ESPN

 

[jukes]

What drama? if i played in cinci i'd want to have fun as long as mike brown is running the show

 

[jcdavey]

johnson is the face of the bengals if they cut him no one will ever talk about there team again cause as long as Marvin Lewis is the HC and Carson Palmer there QB they will never win anything

palmer's been on the way out for the entire offseason.....

chad's not really the face of their chise anymore...just the loudmouth

 

[Calciumee]

palmer's been on the way out for the entire offseason.....

chad's not really the face of their chise anymore...just the loudmouth

When you think of the Bungles, Chad is the first player most people will think of!

I certainly don't think of Palmer or anyone else before Chad! He is the face of them! They don't have any other player who people will think of, maybe Benson.

 

[supafly]

Fair enough. But is he really that much different? I mean he averaged 12.4 YPC last season, and 12.6 YPC the last 3 seasons. Ocho's bigger than Welker and Branch, but he's not a deep threat and not sure what he'd offer that we don't already have.

I'd rather see Taylor Price on the field, similar size to Ocho with more speed and less drama.

I agree with you. I'd much rather see Price get some good reps, and see what he can do. I don't think I'd be incredibly upset at the CJ signing if it happened, but I would not be too pleased either.

He seems to me like he'd be a bit of a diva if he didn't get enough touches, and I don't even know if he's 'that' much of a downfield threat anymore.

Come to think of it, I may even rather have Moss back in a limited role before I would want Johnson here. I don't know. Most of us would probably want Moss back instead, but we'd want the Moss that WE want, the one that could properly block downfield, and be more of a decoy..and that just isn't him. They're both probably not worth much anymore--considering the circus that will come with them. (apologies for Moss reference, but it was semi-relevant)

If I had to choose, I'd pass on Chad Johnson.

 

[Yehoodi]

Good question!

Ask yourself - why did Ali change his name?

Ask yourself - why did Chad Johnson change his name?

While I guess both made the change for reasons of "personal philosophy" let's just say I view Johnson's name change as slightly less noble than Clay's religious and civil rights motivated reasons

Then again, both view themselves as "The Greatest" - though only one is correct.

I guess even Chad agrees with me as apparently he's going back to "Johnson"!

Chad Ochocinco of Cincinnati Bengals says he's changing last name to Johnson - ESPN

I do see where you are coming from . . . I did pick Ali's name change as an example as most would not argue with the change, you and I both agree on that point and i do understand your position on Chad. However, I do think that out of respect that we need to address others as they wished to be addressed, that is a name change or a pronuciation of a name . . . but I understand if others will want to refuse to [or not often do] address another by a new name or pronunciation if one feels the change was not "justified" . . . indeed on a few occasions I have found myself calling Joe Theismann "Joe Thees-man" which is the original pronunciation before he changed it to rhyme with Heisman. So I understand . . .

Getting back to Ali, his is amazing what he did for his sport, sports in general and our society, he certainly transended all three. . . and his name change was just one embodiment of that, as you indicated . . . another reason why I brought up Ali was when I saw your comment about Chad the first thing that went through my mind was the famous fight between Ernie Terrell and Ali after the later changed his name and Terrell refused to address Ali by his new name, and it was the famous "Whats my name" fight when kept asking/taunting Terrell during the fight "whats my name?" good stuff and history

YouTube - muhammad ali ernie terrel " WHAT'S MY NAME ? "

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

When you think of the Bungles, Chad is the first player most people will think of!

I certainly don't think of Palmer or anyone else before Chad! He is the face of them! They don't have any other player who people will think of, maybe Benson.

When I think of the Bengals I think of the Ohio State Penitentiary where most of the players eventually 'live'

 

[DW Toys]

I just don't think he has that much left in the tank. At best, he's a mild Branch upgrade, and even that's unlikely given the chemistry Branch and Brady share. I'll admit Palmer may have limited his production lately, but in your wildest dreams, what would you hope for from Johnson? 1000 yds, 8 tds in 16 games? Branch had 700 yds and 5 tds to go with a very nice YPC in 11 games with us, so it seems like a lateral move to me.

I wish Johnson the best, but I don't think he has anything to offer the team. If we go for anything at the position, which I'm not sure is even called for, I'd target a skill set that is less redundant. Maybe a big, physical body that can be an added threat in the redzone as well as deep. Even that, to me, is a luxury.

Chad is pretty durable. He still has speed. You know Branch will be guaranteed to miss games this year. Everyone loves Tate. I do not see anything and he has been here two years(hurt yes, playbook and correct patterns are still his issues). His negatives in college were his hands....well that works well. His best year was 25 receptions. I am not buying in with him. I hope for Price and........? I would take Chad or others.
DW Toys

 

[bucky]

If Chad knows its the Patriot Way or the highway, it could work. I think him knowing that would be a precondition of him joining the Pats.

Ochocinco is a complete clown. The fact that he changed his last name to his uniform number confirms that as a complete fact. If BB benched Welker in the playoffs for those "toes" comments, what's going to happen when Chad opens his mouth to the media or on Twitter???? Chad might not be active for a single game due to disciplinary actions.

in other news:

Ochocinco was outplayed by TO last year, of all people.
Ochocinco is only 1 year younger than Moss.
Ochocinco was a good WR, but was never in the same league as Moss. So I'd rather take Moss back than go after this guy.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Chad has a similair relationship with bill than moss did, if not better he's not a trouble maker and he's confident player we need more leadership on the offensive end.

When has Chad ever been a leader? We have plenty of leadership on offense. It's the defense that's a little too young and green.

Moss had no relationship with Bill prior to sobbing his way onto the roster. He had just turned 30 at the time and had enough residual talent and incentive at the time to make it almost work for a year. Bill developed a relationship with Randy over time. It was a lot of work, and in the end it meant nothing.

Chad is 33 already, same age as Randy when we moved on from him, and will turn 34 by the time the playoffs roll around. His on field skills are fading and his post football interests demand maintaining his celebrity status. His lifestyle demands he not check his ego at any door lest his personality drive Q rating dip. Otherwise he won't be able to provide for his latest fiancee (one of the never married to a basketball player wives) and the lifestyle to which she is accustomed.

He has never been willing to be accountable, either. And personal and professional accountability is demanded here. Belichick will tear you a new one when warranted and sometimes even when not. Brady will be demanding and not cut you slack. Nobody will blow smoke up your skirt to soothe your ego except perhaps the impressionable youth...and I'm not sure Bill is comfortable with that dynamic. There was a lot of walking on eggshells involved with Moss down the stretch, even in year one. Given what they ultimately got for that, I don't think Tom or Bill is up for another management challenge. The way this off season has unfolded will make managing this season tough enough.

 

[Timbo717]

johnson is the face of the bengals if they cut him no one will ever talk about there team again cause as long as Marvin Lewis is the HC and Carson Palmer there QB they will never win anything

They didn't really win with him there, so if the only reason they were talked about was because of his antics than that is not a big loss. Their fans are probably not too worried about whether he comes back or not because they just drafted one of the top WR to come out of the draft in years and a future QB in Dalton. The club and the fans alike want to begin anew and put this Palmer/Johnson era in the past.

I'm pretty sure the fans and team will happily take Dalton in a year or two throwing to AJ Green, Andre Caldwell, Shipley, Gresham, and Simpson.

The organization and especially the players probably don't care about losing the 2 minutes of airtime on Sportscenter of Chad showing his latest TD dance, or twitter recap, or bull-riding, etc. I'm sure the franchise will survive.

 

[Timbo717]

Chad has a similair relationship with bill than moss did, if not better he's not a trouble maker and he's confident player we need more leadership on the offensive end.

I disagree with the bolded. At just about every position on offense we have leadership. O-line we have veteran guys, the QB position goes without saying. At TE they could bring back Crumpler who by most accounts is a good clubhouse, leader type guy. Branch and Welker will be back at the WR position to provide leadership to those guys. We have leaders on offense. Several.