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Censorship in the forum

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jan 7, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The moderators are supposed to try to keep the forum relatively civil. Our rules came about after the forum got so out of hand and visitors to the forum (not participants) complained to Ian. Some even quit Patsfans they were so offended by some of things said.

    Obviously, politics is a hot topic issue. Someone who is in Iraq and has seen his buddies get killed or injured may take personally criticisms of the war. Someone who is Muslim may take personally a belief that Muslims are guilty until proven innocent. A devout Christian will take an attack on his/her religion personally. A gay person will take the claim that pedophiles are all gay personally.

    When people make sweeping statements about an entire group, I generally issue a warning. If I get complaints PM'ed to me, I may close the thread. In this way, I abide by the rule, "No attacks that stereotype all people of a race, ethnicity, religion, sex, national origin, or sexual preference." Can this rule be improved upon while at the same time still protecting patsfans.com?
     
  2. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    As an American, I am offended when anyone is said to be guilty until proven innocent. I won't quit the forum. I'll use it to rebut and retaliate against such ignorance. Theat's the nature of it . If one is so thin-skinned that they leave the forum when they see such a post, so be it. It took me decades to learn this: You can't please everybody, and I'm teaching my kids that.

    I have no problem with your rule about attacking groups with stereotyping. It's your rule, but I think it's coddling the thin-skinned if you ask me. I enjoy stereotypes - they're fun and I think they're harmless - probably because I work in construction and we spend 50% of the day making fun of each other and our ethnic/racial/gender differences. We literally have everything from gays to black Liberian bikers to - get this- drunken Micks. I understand this type of talk is verbotten in offices and schools, but we're the last bastion of politically incorrect speech in America outside of meetings of the American Nazi Party (by the way, I'd love to take my crew into one of those meetings with baseball bats and do some batting practice for about 20 minutes - my guys and girls would have a ball!).

    One rule we have is that if someone is offended - really offended - that particular stereotype is never used again, but that's rare. One case is when a Brazilian laborer from another company but working alonside ours was calle a "Rican" by the Liberian guy I mentioned. I thought this kid was going to kill the guy. Really hit a nerve.
     
  3. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    He would have been OK with that...that's nothin!
     
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think everyone needs to grow up a little. This is a political forum. If you can't take what some people post, ignore them. How old are we? I know which people in here have what agenda. I post accordingly. Grow up people. This is an internet forum. When you leave the site, your life has not changed any.

    If I may offer something, I find it hypocritical that some in here would label the pope a Nazi, or support such claims. I think people are clearly free to call him one, as I feel people are free to say whatever it is they desire. I am not a big believer in the church, though I do believe in god. What's hypocritical is not so much what was said, but who it was that said it. Said hypocrite lectured me on Robert Byrd, the member and organizer of the KKK, when I said I would never vote for him. I was lectured about forgiveness, giving people second chances, and how to see that people do change. Funny how a child, forced into a Hitler Youth group is not given the same compassion as the adult KKK member, Robert Byrd.

    Hypocracy? Nah.....
     
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Wistah I agree. My dad has a contruction company and I've been involved in it since I was 12. My dad, being an immigrant, loves to hire them for obvious reasons. Anyhow, if the PC people ever heard the things that we say, they'd try to close us down. The same applies to my Barber's shop here in Chelsea. The language and racial/ethnic stuff is crazy. Everyone calls each other racist names, and no one gets mad, they all laugh. Everyone knows its for fun. Me, I hardly ever get involved cuz I never feel comfortable saying some of that stuff. That aside, it doesn't bother me.


    BTW, there is a reason why Latino's don't like to be called spics or ricans. I'd tell you why, as it was expained to me, but it might be offensive to some in here.
     
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Thirties & Forties:
    When a new kid moved into the neighborhood and started hanging around the corner the first thing we did was look for that "certain thing" his nationality, the way he walked, how he talked, his habits, physical affliction, then sooner or later somebody would hit the right note.
    These are some of the guys I hung around with.
    Marble Eyes------"Big Eyes"
    Charlie The B!tch--"Never Smiled Or Laughed"
    Rotten Arm Henry--"Polio In One Arm"
    Hocka Lunga------TB, died at eighteen, we call him "Hocka" today when we speak of him.
    Nose-------------Big Nose
    Whisper--------Didn't know how to to talk softly, said "F-ck" in church at his daughters wedding everybody in the church heard it.
    Everybody had a few on their corner called---- "Fat"
    Pennie Annie----She had sex with every one of us under the BU Bridge before she was 15.
    Flat Face Smitty, his nose was broken three times.
    Vinny The Ginny--Only Italian kid on the corner that could speak Italian.
    Two "Popeyes" both good street fighters.
    Gleasman The Policeman---our Beat Cop (he hated that name)
    Ratso, there were a lot of them around, but "Our Ratso" looked just like a Rat.

    I was simply "Sh!thead" (Red Hair)
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2007
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wistah, the thin-skinned people are apparently those who do not participate in this forum, but occasionally read threads. By restricting offensive posts, we are trying to help Patsfans retain its members, not affect political discussion. Personally, I welcome the harsh debates, especially when the posts are substantive.

    Real World, I called the Pope a Nazi in the same spirit that QuiGon called me a "holocaust-denying scumbag." I should have more precisely responded, "Using the same logic by which you call me a holocaust denier, I could call the Pope a Nazi." (His evidence that I am a holocaust denier is that I once linked to an article on a holocaust deniers site -- the article had to do with North Korea, I believe. My evidence that the Pope was a Nazi is the fact that he belonged to Hitler Youth as a young man.) In all honesty, I think this Pope is bad because of his handling of child abuse in the church and his support for the church's view of women and gays, but I certainly don't judge him by his Nazi past. The fact is he was only a member of the Hitler Youth because he had to be, and I would not have brought it up if QuiGon didn't repeatedly accuse me of being a holocaust denier and anti-semite, which I am anything but. I chose to apply his skewed logic in my own way, but apparently that went over the heads of a couple people.
     
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thats me in the red dress, I still sit around the house once in awhile when it's raining with my wifes slip on.
     
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    :D
    Surprise, surprise. A liberal catoring to the few and irrelevent, as opposed to those who butter the bread. Who cares what passers by think? Who cares if people who never post are offended? Fukc them. I don't post in the football portion of this forum, so should my "feelings" matter there? Of course not. What flawed, ridiculously idiotic logic. Sorry, but if you don't like that people in here get emotional, then don't come here. It's like going to a rated R movie and then complaining about the content. Hey retard, next time go watch something PG. :D



    Ok, glad you explained yourself, so everyone can see how illogical your comparrison was. Quigon called you a Holocaust denier, so you called the Pope a Nazi. That's idiotic. The Pope didn't call you a denier did he? Nope. So why criticize the pope? A proper retort would have been to call Quigon something. I doubt that you weren't bright enough to see this, which leads me to believe you simply wanted to incite some anger by insulting christians and the Pope. Funny how a moderator closes threads that he dislikes, while hiding behind the excuse that passers by find them offensive, yet he then moves to criticize the icon of forum catholics, whom said moderator never sees eye to eye with. Hmmm......
     
  10. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    quite frankly, Patters...

    if you want to get people's attention, you should start laying down the law to anyone mouthing off over your rules... a moderator is a moderator, not a arbitrator or social worker... a nice week's vacation, or a month, usually gets people's attention rather quickly... left or right...

    the forum rules here seem pretty clear to me, and incredibly forgiving, compared to other places i've been... a 100 scale points system would let people know how close they are to a vacation, etc. ... call a race or religion "smelly" or suggest they should all die, or make a personal attack on another poster? 50 points... do it again? ... give them a week off... do it a third time? find your IP locked out for good...

    it's really quite simple... some of these guys are trying to run the asylum , and you might just be coddling them ...
     
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In other words you don't agree with some of the things "us neo cons" have to say, eh?
    :bricks:
     
  13. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    no, not "in other words" ... i believe i wrote "left or right"....
     
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Do the math Harry. Hardcore liberal moderator with a reputation of closing threads that differ from his personal views, while ignoring identical threads that agree with his personal agenda. Hey, why wouldn't anyone want a dictatorship with him in charge? :D
     
  15. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    a perfect example, right here... especially when threads closed have been the result of blatant personal attack or racism... i can go back and find a locked liberal thread or three ... and that's just in my month here...

    i will admit, however, that it does a political forum moderator no good to become involved in thread topics, and should just stick to moderating... because inevitably, no matter how fair you are with moderating -- exclusive from your opinion -- you get this "unfair" sillyness above...

    i would be happy to moderate, and mind my business on thread debate.... but i could assure you, the forum rules would be enforced to the letter... lefty or righty violators be damned...
     
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    But your a liberal stooge yourself, so how would you be any different than Frauders? Of course you'd be happy to moderate. What bleeding heart righty or lefty wouldn't? To moderate, one should be as close to the center as is possible. Personally, I think people are far to wussy in here. Catoring to people who don't even post boggles the mind. Of course, when you consider which far side of the fence is doing the catoring, it makes perfect sense. To over censor because passers by get offended is ludicris. It's like a country concerning itself with what illegal alliens might....oh wait, nevermind. :D
     
  17. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    see? "stooge".... that right there is a personal attack, worthy of accountability... it doesn't really bother me, but when it's allowed, you can't really act indignant when it's given right back to you... or any of you righties, who routinely make things personal, and then cry when it's given right back to you.... and so, there we are..... time for each of us to take a long hard look in the mirror, and see if we can debate the issues without sucker punching and then acting baffled when the other side hits back...
     
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    If I were to attack you personally, then I talk about you far differently than describing you as a party stooge, which you are. If people can't handle crap like that, then they should go post somewhere else. Try Home & Garden or something. What's funny, is the righties are the ones crying of the attacks, they are complaining about the double standard which exists in this forums censorship. Not that you would understand that. QuiGon or Harry posts something and it gets closed or deleted, NEM & Co. post anything they desire and it's permitted to fly. Why am I not surprised that you don't understand what the issue is? Most people in here don't care that you call them a bunkerite, or a neo-con whatever. What they are pissed at is the biased censorship of there posts and threads. Where I do not envy Patters job as moderator, I do find it a bit bizarre that he closes threads in the manner with which he has. I think people need to dewussify a bit.
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, as in, quit wearing womens panties people (oops, is that offensive?) :rocker:

    NEM, my position on all of this censorship stuff is simple. This is a political forum. Politics are emotional & controversial. People are going to find some positions, or beliefs to be offensive. Some will use certain verbage to describe fellow posters. Said verbage will be viewed as offensive to some, but not others. If people can't understand this, then they shouldn't post here.
     
  20. gomezcat

    gomezcat It's SIR Moderator to you Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Real World, you do have a point. However, Ian WAS pretty close to shutting down this forum completely, on his own rather than posters' behest. It was with that in mind that we had to clean up our act.
     

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