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Discussion in 'Boston Celtics Fan Forum' started by IcyPatriot, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Okay ... maybe one thread for a draft that probably will be a yawner for us. then again there is the Josh Smith trade rumor swirling around. So - what do you think? I would draft Jeremy Tyler if possible - has upside and considering the options at #25 it's a wtf pick anyways.

    Can we dump Big Baby ... sign and trade, dump ... whatever ... time to cut the string there.

    Should C's consider Smith? - Boston Celtics Blog - ESPN Boston

    If the Celtics hold on untill next year they have a max contract to spend with. If they trade for Smith now they lose that somehow according to the talking heads.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2011
  2. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Josh Smith would be a great addition to the C's. The question will be for the Celtics, is it worth acquiring Smith and losing the chance to acquire Dwight Howard later on? Then again getting an all-star PF in his prime into the fold is always a good thing and you can't be sure you'll win the free agent sweepstakes for Howard even if you DO have enough money to spend!
     
  3. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But Howard and Smith are pals or something like that so I say you get Smith and then dump Pierce next year to get Superman. New big 3 of rondo, smith and Howard.:D Also you have some money to make it a big 3.5.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2011
  4. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    Do we have any flexibility in finances, players and picks to pull off some roster moves this season to dramatically increase the quality of roster in the coming seasons?

    More importantly do Doc and Danny see eye to eye on the direction of the Celtics?
     
  5. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    i dont think you dump Pierce...he is one of the greatest Celtics of all time. I dont think we have enough cash for Howard who will end up in either LA or NJ/Bronx or wherever they are moving.
     
  6. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    There isn't a way in hell Pierce will get traded.

    This is a guy who's been with us from the very worst of it. Even if it hurts on the court, I don't see the Celtics letting Pierce go unless he wants to go himself and won't take a reduced salary.
     
  7. bigcountry75

    bigcountry75 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I think Ainge has done a great job and looks like he is learning from BB....If the guy you want will still be there then trade back and gain picks for the future....

    Jajuan Johnson will be a very good player in this league for a while.....He has all the intangibles, work ethic and skills to come right in and take some PT from KG to help keep his minutes down.....I really like this pick.....

    Etwan Moore is also another solid pick.....They were teammates at Purdue so if/when they are on the floor together then they will already know how to work together.....He is also a scorer that when he is on, he can take over a game.....Another solid pick.....

    I really think this draft worked out as well as it could for the Celts picking where they were.....They got 2 really solid players and Jajuan could end up being a very special player in this league......These guys will come in and play next season and possibly make an impact like Big Baby did when he got his chance.....Nice job Danny and we have 2 first round picks next season too.....Woo Hoo
     
  8. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    First of all, just about EVERYONE drafted in the NBA draft is a crap shoot as far as whether they make it

    But if Johnson can bulk up and learn how to use it down low, they've got a very dangerous weapon in the middle that could really change the dynamic of the team.

    What I like best about this move is that Ainge may have killed two birds with one stone, getting a shooter as well as a center - so it could payoff big.

    That's a fair trade too - Brooks was good value at 25 and New Jersey recognized that
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2011
  9. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Without emulating BB, Danny Ainge is one of the game's best GM's in his own right.

    People were trashing Ainge last year after the Perkins trade, but some of those fans need to step back and realize what Ainge has accomplished since he's been here. I used to go to Celtics games all the time when they were the worst team in the league and loaded with expensive, long, worthless contracts, and it was no easy task to get them to where they are today.
     
  10. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I like Ainge and think he deserves credit for where they are. He made a string of really great draft picks which he parlayed into KG and Allen - can't give him enough credit for that.

    But I think you're overselling him overall. He has made some truly dumbfounding trades and signings in his time here and he's gotten a free pass at times. The reality is that since he acquired the Big 3 and Rondo, I'm not sure he's had his A game. He needs to surround these guys with the parts they need to win it all and fight off the predictable injuries and running-out-of-gas which will inevitably hit, even if its Game 7 of the Finals.

    They have one more shot at this thing if there is an NBA season next year - Ainge better make a run at it. As a GM, he is inconsistent, and the C's cannot afford for him to make a single mistake this offseason.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2011
  11. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    EVERY general manager will make mistakes. Who else would you have? Ainge is one of the 3 best GM's in the game.

    Even the Perkins trade wasn't a disaster. It was a calculated move that failed because Shaq was finished. In the NBA it's better to get something for nothing, and Perkins wasn't resigning after the season based on what he was demanding. I know we have the Big Three's window to think about, but what if Ainge is looking long-term, like Belichick, and wanting to keep the Celtics in contention for a long time?

    I think his biggest mistake was not resigning Tony Allen, but he found him in the first place. Plus, we might have kept Tony Allen if not for a long chain reaction that started when Marquis Daniels got hurt.
     
  12. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I'm not sure if I would agree w/ you that Ainge is top 3. In my opinion, I would say Ainge is "good" but not "great." I know Sam Presti is a better GM. Ainge didn't even ask for Green, he wanted Harden, Presti wouldn't budge, but Ainge couldn't stop himself from making the move.

    If he had kept Perk, he wouldn't have gotten nothing. He would've gotten another half year of Perk's service, a much better chance at a championship. It's clear the Thunder did not have Green in their long term plans, if Ainge really wanted him, he could have had him this offseason.

    There's a reason Presti wanted to move Green. He has no true position, he can't defend at either the 3 or 4, can't rebound, and he can't shoot from the outside consistently. I'm not saying he's not without strengths - he is a solid backup on this team over the course of the season. He just was not going to help this team win a championship. At all.

    I agree about Tony Allen, losing him was critical, unfortunately. It sounds like a lot of that had to do with Tony.

    I think Ainge gets a pass for some of his signings & trades before the team turned around, which delayed this team turning around.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2011
  13. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    It seems to me that the Celts may have been very wise not to consider trading players until the lockout is over and there's a new CBA which is going to impact the landscape for high priced veterans

    Once that's settled, Ainge has been pretty clear that he views holding the Big Three from his era to be a mistake that resulted in a very long championship drought... which means anyone is on the table for trades at the right price.

    Comparing Ainge to Belichick is like comparing Basketball to Football - there's really no correlation between the two sports or drafts, or veterans or how deep the pool of talent is....

    It's a crap shoot to find the young players in both sports - but in the NFL you have 7 rounds and undrafted players... a fair share of 6th round, 7th round and undrafted players wind up having great NFL careers.

    In the NBA its rare that someone in the 2nd round has a credible career.

    Give Ainge credit for his willingness to make bold moves - but also recognize the luck involved... we're very lucky he didn't "win" the lottery for Greg Oden (I tend to doubt that Ainge knew Oden was a bust and would have traded him) resulting in the big trades that brought a championship.

    There's been no shortage of other lucky moves too - just as Ainge and other GMs have had their share of bad luck too - again, not a knock at Ainge - I give him credit for being willing to make bold moves - and I hope he's willing to do so again - but I still recognize the role of the leprechaun in the Celtics recent success.
     
  14. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    But what if the Celtics had come up with the #2 overall pick that year? They'd have Durant on the roster instead of Ray Allen. Maybe that team doesn't win a championship right away like with the big 3, but they definitely would be in better shape long term and possibly would have won another championship by now. The lottery generally screws with the Celtics. Getting #5 resulted in... Jeff Green which resulted in Ray Allen which led to the KG signing which led to a championship in Boston. And we got Jeff Green back anyways for Perkins final year of service. I really do wonder if we could have won it all if we kept Perk though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2011
  15. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Yep - I wonder the same thing.

    It was a bold move by Ainge to trade Perk.

    Similar bold moves have given us banner #17 going from worst to first and kept the Celts as contenders ever since - but it's always possible one of those bold moves can backfire.

    On the scenarios with Durant, it's anyones guess how things would have come down but without Ray Allen would KG have come to the team? I don't know but I think Allen being here was a factor for KG's interest in becoming the new Big Three.
     
  16. DropKickFlutie

    DropKickFlutie Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Without getting Ray Allen, Garnett doesn't come to Boston. Then, Eddie House and other players don't join Boston as a contender.

    If we got the #2 pick we would probably have Durant, but who is to say we would have won anything? We could have been the Atlanta Hawks the past few years instead of having gone to the NBA Finals two different seasons.
     
  17. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    So Celtics fans, thoughts on what is needed to pull the Celtics out of the decline of age and form to once more become a competitive power?

    The roster needs a serious make over for mine, but I'm not sure 2011/2012 provides enough bargaining chips to drastically improve the Celtics.
     
  18. TheTruth3402

    TheTruth3402 On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    I've just been talking everyone off the ledge over at CelticsBlog. Its definitely possible to build a contending team with a reshaped core. It will not, however be easy.

    There are two options:

    A. Absolutely tank 2012-13. Get rid of Garnett, Allen and amnesty Paul Pierce. Add whatever top talent will come here, (there isn't much Monta Ellis or Andre Iguodala), angle to get a top 5 draft pick and *hope* to draft a superstar. This has been suggested by a few people. Count me out for this solution.

    B. Field a unified team of underdogs and second tier talent. Rondo already falls into this category. There are also guys like OJ Mayo and Josh Smith (both big Rondo advocates), Jeff Green, Javale McGee, Kevin Love etc. etc. This team could fly up and down the floor and commit to playing outstanding team defense. Sure, they will never be as effective as a superstar team in the half court. But this team can win games and play spoiler.

    The thing everyone needs to remember is that there is always luck. One never knows who may come available via trade. Players become disgruntled, rifts develop. The wisest solution, IMO, is to just keep building, assemble the best talent you can and hope.

    The Celts also have two 1st round picks in next years' draft, maybe they could package them together for a future superstar liike, say Austin Rivers! :D

    There are many intriguing possibilities.
     
  19. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    I'm not sold Ainge would have gone for Olden. At the time, everyone was concerned he was going to pick Durant.


    Also, from a previous poster that Pierce would never get traded. Ainge would trade his grandmother if he felt it would help the club.
     
  20. TheTruth3402

    TheTruth3402 On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    The other day, someone said that Ainge was in the Oden camp. I think it was Adrian Woj. It was a segment on CSNNE.
     

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