Celtics Free Agency & Summer League

[rochrist]

I think Okafor's floor is as a backup front court guy who can provide offense and where the other team down with his size. I think he will remain a good trade chip if he does not work out. To be honest I don't know much about him from College or High School. Being in the Philly situation would not be easy for any 19 year old and I am not ruffled by some of his behavior IF the Celtics staff is not. I don't know the man. I do think he has excellent moves to the basket, good feet and hands, above average passing for a man his size at his age and at least average rim protection. I think he fits in particularly well with Horford and the Celtics need for size and go to scoring. His contract is very good to absorb. Given his draft profile (not the perceptions from his 1 year on the sixers) would have had him rated ahead of both Smart and Brown in their draft classes. Where he would have been picked those years is speculation. The celtics culture and Stevens are exactly what he needs to have the best chance of being a star and he has a genuine chance of being a star.

I love Bradley and do not want to lose him, but there is a cost and I think he has the best value to give. His 1st defensive team is important for the Sixers to sell to the fan base because like all pro sports it is about the selling of the brand. I don't think he is a 1st defensive team. That award was more due to his clamp on Curry and his past work. Although his shooting has improved, he is not good at creating his own shot. I think he is at his peak and he is an injury risk and at times he plays to protect himself from injury. The fact that we have many young players who can take his minutes makes him more easy to lose. His two year contract is much better in value than Amir's or JJ's.

Because Rozier was in the same draft class as Okafor, the Sixers get him for the same length of time on a rookie contract. Actually a much cheaper contract than Okafor's.

I believe Okafor's ceiling on the Celtics is a starter on a championship team and the Celtics are tying to get as many of those players as they can. If we could get him for Bradley and Rozier that is a win as I see it.

He blocked 1.1 shots a game, which would have put him 36th in the league, except he didn't do enough to qualify.

Plus, which part of 'he doesn't play the way Stevens wants his bigs to play' do you not get? He's slow, doesn't run the floor, can't stretch the floor and can't play defense.

 

[willard]

1.1 for a Rookie seems ok. Who was the Celtics last rookie to have a higher block rate? I said I thought he .had at least average rim protection for a player his age. Don't think you got me there. I did rate his low post scoring, hands, feet and passing as being above average for the position and his age. Don't see you disputing that.

Has Brad Stevens said he doesn't play the way he wants his bigs to play? If so please point me to the quote and I will withdraw my support. The more likely fact is that he has not played for Brad so it would be hard to say how he plays in his system. Given all of the reported interest by the Celtics both at the trade deadline, prior to the draft and after it would seem Danny Ainge thinks he is worth pursuing. How likely is that if he doesn't fit for them.

Yes he is no Tyler Zeller running up and down. Stretching the floor does not appear to be a strength, but it is one Horford has developed so who knows. I think in the Celtics culture he could become a good defensive player. I think he could become an excellent offensive player. If our window to win a championship is 2 to 5 years out, I think he fits in with that. I would prefer a more mature center with his skills, but I don't see any available.

 

[realtime]

Rim protection is more than just blocked shots (kind of like how pass rushing is more than just sacks).

Right now, Okafor is a poor rim protector. Maybe he can improve a little as he matures, but there is a significant risk that he will be the East's version of Enes Kanter -- a guy who puts up insane per-48 scoring and rebounding numbers but is relegated to a bench role because he gives up more points on D than he can score.

Big men who share Okafor's defensive limitations are virtually un-usable in the playoffs against good pick-and-roll teams (see, e.g., Kanter against GSW and Sullinger against ATL). If you want to use him off the bench for 15-20 minutes per game in a Kanter-type role, then it could make some sense, but: (1) Okafor would have to accept that role; and (2) you really shouldn't give up a decent draft pick or a player as good as Avery Bradley to acquire that kind of role player.

 

[rochrist]

1.1 for a Rookie seems ok. Who was the Celtics last rookie to have a higher block rate? I said I thought he .had at least average rim protection for a player his age. Don't think you got me there. I did rate his low post scoring, hands, feet and passing as being above average for the position and his age. Don't see you disputing that.

Has Brad Stevens said he doesn't play the way he wants his bigs to play? If so please point me to the quote and I will withdraw my support. The more likely fact is that he has not played for Brad so it would be hard to say how he plays in his system. Given all of the reported interest by the Celtics both at the trade deadline, prior to the draft and after it would seem Danny Ainge thinks he is worth pursuing. How likely is that if he doesn't fit for them.

Yes he is no Tyler Zeller running up and down. Stretching the floor does not appear to be a strength, but it is one Horford has developed so who knows. I think in the Celtics culture he could become a good defensive player. I think he could become an excellent offensive player. If our window to win a championship is 2 to 5 years out, I think he fits in with that. I would prefer a more mature center with his skills, but I don't see any available.

It sure sounded to me in the run up to the draft that Philly wanted to dump Okafor and the Cs wanted Noel and that was the sticking point.

 

[realtime]

It sure sounded to me in the run up to the draft that Philly wanted to dump Okafor and the Cs wanted Noel and that was the sticking point.

In contrast to how I feel about Okafor, I would be delighted to see the C's acquire Noel. Active, athletic, big man who runs the court and defends well. Basically the polar opposite of Okafor except that (IMO) Noel's offensive upside is significantly greater than Okafor's defensive upside. Plus he is a local boy (Malden/Everett). What's not to like?

 

[willard]

Yes the sacks analogy is app, but blocks like sacks are measurable. The other analytics in both the NBA and NFL are arguable. I agree he was not a good defender in Philly last year. I disagree that his comps are Sullinger and Kanter in terms of his potential to develop. Okafor has good footwork, but he is not quick. On our team with the other positions being much above average defensively he would not have as much burden to react and be an elite rim defender. I do think he has the potential within the Celtics to be an average to above average defender. Noel clearly is better now than Okafor will ever be. However I think Okafor already is a better player on offense than Noel is likely to become. His scoring, handle and passing are all much better than Noel's.

I would prefer Okafor, but if the Sixers are offering Noel and the price difference is too much for Okafor I would take Noel. After next year Noel is going to expect a Whiteside contract. Not sure about whether we can tender him, then offer a max contract to a 2017 free agent and then go over the cap with his bird rights or not signing him. This is a big piece of Okafor is that we won't loose our Brooklyn picks or at worst the 2018 one which is worth less and we still have financial room to sign one more mas free agent. Noel will impact our financial flexibility 2 years sooner and this goes in to the calculus.

I would want Cousins first, Okafor second and Noel third and be absolutely happy if any of those 3 should join the Celtics.

What's up with Willy Cauley Stein? is he looking like the next Noel? Have not followed him. I know there was a lot of excitement at draft time.

 

[realtime]

Granted, it's only summer league, and granted that Brown may not be 100% yet, but still a little disappointing that Nader has looked more like a first round pick than Brown in two consecutive games.

 

[borg]

Granted, it's only summer league, and granted that Brown may not be 100% yet, but still a little disappointing that Nader has looked more like a first round pick than Brown in two consecutive games.

Besides a lightning first step….I'm a bit frightened by his skill set. I don't see fundamentals and organized B-ball looks a mystery to him.
A #3 PROJECT

 

[IcyPatriot]

I've watched all the summer league games so far ... it's not easy really as the action is ragged at best.
Jaylen Brown has tons of talent but he's been trying to be a good teammate so that's all there is to say there.
This is a ten foul league so playing like he can will only result in injuries for now - they hack him badly.
As above he does need to learn how to play as part of a unit ... that will come in time.

I do not see what the rage is Jordan Mickey ... I am MEH on him.
I think Ben Bentil will be a better player down the line.

Yabusele has big time talent ... how that translates to this year will be the intrigue.
Fans will like Yabusele similar to Kendrick Perkins except the kid can shoot.
Not sure if he's tall enough to be a traditional PF ... perhaps for now he can be a change of pace PF on a small unit.

I really like Abdul Nader ... this kid has talent ... a year or two in the D-League and this kid will be a nice role player in the NBA.
He can shoot - dribble - rebound and defend ... a well rounded kid who with some added muscle will make himself a nice NBA career.
A valuable kind of player every team needs to manage their salary cap.

As for James Young his shot is better but there is no room for him on this team.
He gets knocked around like a rag doll ... he's too small and too weak.
Another year in the D-League or maybe Ainge can trade him for a future pick of some kind.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Oh and I forgot ... Terry Rozier makes Marcus Smart a trade chip ... he is a complete player.
Sorry to say it Marcus Smart fans ... it is what it is as they say.
RJ Hunter's shot and defense is better ... the shot is way better.

Thomas/Bradley with a 2nd unit of Rozier/Hunter will be 2 good units.

Demetrius Jackson was a great pick ... a few years away but the kid can play.

 

[rochrist]

JBrown with 20 points, 10 rebounds and 4 steals last night, 25 points, 9 rebounds and 2 steals tonight.

 

[IcyPatriot]

JBrown with 20 points, 10 rebounds and 4 steals last night, 25 points, 9 rebounds and 2 steals tonight.

The kid is super quick but he's gotten smarter about going to the rim in this hack summer league.
There was a drive spin move finished with a floater to the rim tonight that was so quick I thought he came out of his shoes.
I can easily see him on the 2nd unit this year ... he has very decent defensive aptitude which is key for a rookie.

His game will translate well ... no worries there and the shot will come in time.
He'll have more space to drive to the rim in the NBA than he's getting in the summer league.
They don't call defenders hanging in the paint at all ... so there is little room to drive to the net in this league.

Anyone picking on the selection is not watching the game ...
The shooters dominate this league ... for the reason stated above.

 

[borg]

Oh and I forgot ... Terry Rozier makes Marcus Smart a trade chip ... he is a complete player.
Sorry to say it Marcus Smart fans ... it is what it is as they say.
RJ Hunter's shot and defense is better ... the shot is way better.

Thomas/Bradley with a 2nd unit of Rozier/Hunter will be 2 good units.

Demetrius Jackson was a great pick ... a few years away but the kid can play.

Stating that Hunter's defense is better than Smart's should disqualify you from posting on any Celtics board

 

[IcyPatriot]

Stating that Hunter's defense is better than Smart's should disqualify you from posting on any Celtics board

Did not say it was better than Smart's ...
I was referring to Hunter himself as in compared to last year ...
Anyone who knows the team would comprehend that.
Should I write it in book form next time?

 

[rochrist]

What do you think of the rumor that the Cs are about to get Griffin for Bradley, Amir and the Net's 18 pick?

 

[captain insano]

What do you think of the rumor that the Cs are about to get Griffin for Bradley, Amir and the Net's 18 pick?

i don't like it. I'm not a griffin fan. he's overrated and hurt all the time. and i don't like his attitude. all he does is dunk. if they even think about trading for him or [westbrook] without locking him up to a contract is absolutely crazy. i dont like it even if they do get him to sign.

 

[rochrist]

I don't know. He's a limited player, but he's also a great rebounder, something they sorely need. They aren't (or wouldn't be) giving up the 17 pick. Trading Bradley is tough, but it also opens things up more for Rozier who has torn up the SL.

I guess the bottom line is that I see it as a more reasonable trade than the others I've seen floated.

 

[IcyPatriot]

What do you think of the rumor that the Cs are about to get Griffin for Bradley, Amir and the Net's 18 pick?

Not crazy about it ... seems desperate really.
He's always injured and he's a forward.
I'd rather they get a center to move Horford to forward.
Would we be better off with Horford or Griffen at forward is how I see it.
Wyc is making Ainge look into crazy **** ... no way is this Ainge's play IMO.

Also we have no replacement for Bradley on this roster ... he's very valuable IMO as he helps shut down opposing stars.

 

[rochrist]

JB wth 21 points, 7 rebounds and 5 steals tonight. Over the last 3 games, he's averaged 22 points, 9 rebounds and 3.5 steals.

 

[IcyPatriot]

JB wth 21 points, 7 rebounds and 5 steals tonight. Over the last 3 games, he's averaged 22 points, 9 rebounds and 3.5 steals.

This kid can play ... he's fun to watch ... like I said earlier fans will be surprised that the kid can rebound and play defense also.
The shot will come ... this kid is too talented and he's not going to be on the floor to be a jump shooter anyways.
All he needs is a decent enough shot to keep his defender honest.